debate between me and another

[mutantducky]

and 50% wrong . no brownie points. only star stickers which kick arse anyways

[representing]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

and 50% wrong . no brownie points. only star stickers which kick arse anyways

Ok... but how would you explain why you would need to go to the arrow? I would have much rather tell the coach "You can't call time out, A had the ball in bound" and then take the ball out of bounds for a throw-in, instead of saying "oh, it goes to the arrow now" and not be able to explain that. I would have been wrong to say that the coach cannot have a time-out since the ball was in play and shall be placed back into play asap unless A wants a time-out (as would have been allowed had the ball still be in play), but would have been right to give the ball back to A. I think I get more "brownie points" for that than my buddy would if he were to go to the arrow. These are the kind of situations you can get into trouble with, especially in a close game with just minutes left.

I actually just remembered a few minutes ago that i had this very same situation my first season as a basketball official. The one very small detail that makes it slightly different is that I heard B's head coach call time out before the ball was placed in bounds by A, and I was a little slow to blowing the whistle and granting the time out. A got the ball in just as I was blowing the whistle. Then, I didn't know how to explain the situation to A's head coach but I got it right anyways. Granted B the time out, and gave A the ball out-of-bounds after the play. I just can't remember if I gave A the baseline to run or not, as it was an in-bound play at the baseline after a made basket in a very close game.

[Back In The Saddle]

You bring up a good point. There have been a whole slew of postings here lately where perfectly reasonable officials, for no explainable reason, want to solve whatever quandary they have gotten themselves into...by going to the arrow.

If I were king of basketball, I think I'd take the arrow away until these folks learned how to properly solve the 99% of situations that resume using POI or some means other than the arrow. Then maybe, and only maybe, I'd give it back.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

If I were king of basketball, I think I'd take the arrow away until these folks learned how to properly solve the 99% of situations that resume using POI or some means other than the arrow. Then maybe, and only maybe, I'd give it back.

And would you also take BillyMac's suggestion of a coin flip instead of a jump ball too?

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by representing

Ok... but how would you explain why you would need to go to the arrow? I would have much rather tell the coach "You can't call time out, A had the ball in bound" and then take the ball out of bounds for a throw-in, instead of saying "oh, it goes to the arrow now" and not be able to explain that. I would have been wrong to say that the coach cannot have a time-out since the ball was in play and shall be placed back into play asap unless A wants a time-out (as would have been allowed had the ball still be in play), but would have been right to give the ball back to A. I think I get more "brownie points" for that than my buddy would if he were to go to the arrow. These are the kind of situations you can get into trouble with, especially in a close game with just minutes left.

You can't, because there is no conceivable way that you would use the AP arrow in this situation. Ideally, you should ignore a timeout request from B's coach since he couldn't request one at the time. I really hope your buddy that you were arguing with isn't doing any games above the junior high level. If we used the AP arrow in this situation, what is to keep B's coach from requesting timeouts all the time when his team has the arrow, hoping he can get one of the officials to grant it?

I actually just remembered a few minutes ago that i had this very same situation my first season as a basketball official. The one very small detail that makes it slightly different is that I heard B's head coach call time out before the ball was placed in bounds by A, and I was a little slow to blowing the whistle and granting the time out. A got the ball in just as I was blowing the whistle. Then, I didn't know how to explain the situation to A's head coach but I got it right anyways. Granted B the time out, and gave A the ball out-of-bounds after the play. I just can't remember if I gave A the baseline to run or not, as it was an in-bound play at the baseline after a made basket in a very close game.

So the ball was at A's disposal for a throw-in and you granted B's coach a timeout? Or did B score and before it was at A's disposal, B's coach requested a timeout? You might want to clean up your posts and be more clear about what was happening so it is easier to give you a straight answer.

[representing]

Originally Posted by zm1283

You can't, because there is no conceivable way that you would use the AP arrow in this situation. Ideally, you should ignore a timeout request from B's coach since he couldn't request one at the time. I really hope your buddy that you were arguing with isn't doing any games above the junior high level. If we used the AP arrow in this situation, what is to keep B's coach from requesting timeouts all the time when his team has the arrow, hoping he can get one of the officials to grant it?

That's exactly my point. You CAN'T explain that. I asked him that question and he gave me some bull**** and said that if he didn't know how to explain it, he would just tell the coach "hey, it's in the rulebook, and I don't make the rules". And yet, he's doing district championship games and local small DIII college games.

Originally Posted by zm1283

So the ball was at A's disposal for a throw-in and you granted B's coach a timeout? Or did B score and before it was at A's disposal, B's coach requested a timeout? You might want to clean up your posts and be more clear about what was happening so it is easier to give you a straight answer.

Sorry. B shot the ball and made it. A had the ball to pass it in. If I remember correctly, B was pressing A so A could not get the ball into play right away. B's Head Coach calls a time out while A still had the ball out of bounds for the throw-in. I acknowledged it, but had a slight delay with my whistle. When I finally blew the whistle to grant B a time out, the ball was on it's way in-bounds.

Does that make better sense?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by representing

Sorry. B shot the ball and made it. A had the ball to pass it in. If I remember correctly, B was pressing A so A could not get the ball into play right away. B's Head Coach calls a time out while A still had the ball out of bounds for the throw-in. I acknowledged it, but had a slight delay with my whistle. When I finally blew the whistle to grant B a time out, the ball was on it's way in-bounds.

Does that make better sense?

My confusion is whether you still believe you were right in this situation.

You can't grant B's timeout request if it came after A has the ball at their disposal for the throw-in. Whether the throw-in has ended or not is of no consequence. B shouldn't have been granted a timeout in this scenario, either.