Communication issue

[Back In The Saddle]

If you have video of the game, send it to the state office. If it all happened as you say, this is a problem that needs to be addressed. As for how to approach the officials, it sounds to me like you handled it okay, but were inappropriately rebuffed.

Now I wasn't there, I didn't see how all this went down, I did not observe what interactions you may have had prior to this, . But if everything happened just as you describe, this is a problem. You were right to voice your concerns. And you'd be right to escalate this through proper channels.

[Adam]

I agree, taking what you're saying at face value, with BITS. Communication through your AD to the assigner would be appropriate, if your area uses a central assigner. If your AD is the assigner, then I would address it with him and see how far he wants to take it.

I'll offer my theory (the most charitable one) for this situation. There is a progression that officials go through, in general.

They start off timid, missing some calls and late on others. Sometimes they're so late they just let it go.

They then start to call anything and everything. Virtually all contact is a foul, without regard to advantage.

Then they learn about advantage/disadvantage as it applies to fouls, and have to call quite a few games and learn how to apply it properly. This normally involves letting too much contact go and learning from it. It seems like this is where your officials were last night; hopefully. I would also hope that they are evaluating themselves rather than pi$$ing and moaning about that whiny coach.

It sounds like you did what you could to talk to them, and it sounds like they were not willing to talk. It happens for various reasons. Most likely, he knew he missed it and reacted poorly to being called out.

One question I always react more positively to, is a quiet (while I'm standing near) "Why wasn't that a foul?" It's a question I can answer, and it's quiet and polite.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

If you have video of the game, send it to the state office. If it all happened as you say, this is a problem that needs to be addressed. As for how to approach the officials, it sounds to me like you handled it okay, but were inappropriately rebuffed.

Agree, take your video and get r done. Generally speakin most of us are a proud hard working bunch who love the game as much or more than most coaches and spectators. If they are truely this horrible get them out. Safety of the players should always come first and then equal administration of the true spirts of the rules. Keep doin what ur doin.

[Nevadaref]

This isn't going to be a popular response, but sadly it contains a great deal of truth.

Complaining won't change anything. The state/local association likely won't do anything, unless a lawsuit gets filed. With what schools are currently paying HS officials, you are fortunate to get what you have, especially on the girls side.

There just aren't people lining up to officiating a girls JV game.

[j51969]

[QUOTE=Nevadaref;641190]This isn't going to be a popular response, but sadly it contains a great deal of truth.

Complaining won't change anything. The state/local association likely won't do anything, unless a lawsuit gets filed. With what schools are currently paying HS officials, you are fortunate to get what you have, especially on the girls side. QUOTE]

Probably 99.9% true.

[grunewar]

[QUOTE=j51969;641276]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This isn't going to be a popular response, but sadly it contains a great deal of truth.

Complaining won't change anything. The state/local association likely won't do anything, unless a lawsuit gets filed. With what schools are currently paying HS officials, you are fortunate to get what you have, especially on the girls side. QUOTE]

j51969 - Probably 99.9% true.

99.9%? If you're talking about the officials - Not where I work. If you're talking about the lawsuits - I have no idea.

I am trying to work my way up to a full V schedule, but I'm not there yet. Tough to climb the mountain in my Association and maybe others. I still get my share of F/JV games (along with V games) as do some of my peers. As recommended on this Forum and by my mentors - never turn down a game if you don't have to and work, work, work to gain experience.

Our Association does well reporting problems to the state too.

While the statement may have some truth and it may be a high percentage, I believe your 99.9% is unfair to hard working officials trying to get ahead and to Associations who work hard supporting their officials.

My $.02

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I am trying to work my way up to a full V schedule, but I'm not there yet. Tough to climb the mountain in my Association and maybe others.

Do you belong to Cardinal? When I lived in the area I heard some bad things about moving up in that association.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Do you belong to Cardinal? When I lived in the area I heard some bad things about moving up in that association.

I work for Bull Run. They have treated me very well, spent a lot of hours training me, and brought me along at the correct pace. No complaints from me.

I have no comment on my sister Association as all it would only be based on is here say.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There just aren't people lining up to officiating a girls JV game.

Not quite true around here. Two of the requirements to work playoffs are to have worked a minimum number of JV games and a minimum number of girls games. Working a girls JV game counts for both.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not quite true around here. Two of the requirements to work playoffs are to have worked a minimum number of JV games and a minimum number of girls games. Working a girls JV game counts for both.

Where I live often the assignors are different for each gender. So if you work for the girl's assignor, you may not work for the boy's assignor. And honestly, if you work a lot of girl's basketball it will eliminate you from a lot of boy's basketball (and vise versa). And for many officials when they choose, they do not choose or desire to work girl's basketball. So it does ring true if they have a choice, they are not working a JV girl's game.

Peace

[j51969]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Where I live often the assignors are different for each gender. So if you work for the girl's assignor, you may not work for the boy's assignor. And honestly, if you work a lot of girl's basketball it will eliminate you from a lot of boy's basketball (and vise versa). And for many officials when they choose, they do not choose or desire to work girl's basketball. So it does ring true if they have a choice, they are not working a JV girl's game.

Peace

Very true especially if your moving into the next level with woman's basketball. It goes without saying that these are two completely different forms of basketball. You could make the arguement that at it's best, and most pure form, the girls game it fantastic when played at a high level. And when it's not, you want to stab yourself in the eye with a pencil. Alot of people may choose to avoid the female game all together. Patty Broderick is maybe one of the best officials in the world and attending one of her camps may shed new light on there style of play, and your interest in it. JMO

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Where I live often the assignors are different for each gender. So if you work for the girl's assignor, you may not work for the boy's assignor. And honestly, if you work a lot of girl's basketball it will eliminate you from a lot of boy's basketball (and vise versa). And for many officials when they choose, they do not choose or desire to work girl's basketball. So it does ring true if they have a choice, they are not working a JV girl's game.

Peace

Regional differences, and you can challenge whether we have a "choice" around here due to the CHSAA rules; but the fact is they do have a choice.

1. Don't work playoffs.
2. Work X number of JV boys games plus Y number of girls varsity games.
3. Combine those into JVG games and be able to work more VB games.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Regional differences, and you can challenge whether we have a "choice" around here due to the CHSAA rules; but the fact is they do have a choice.

1. Don't work playoffs.
2. Work X number of JV boys games plus Y number of girls varsity games.
3. Combine those into JVG games and be able to work more VB games.

Again, the point I am making is not everyone is "made" to work both genders. In my state we have 4 different levels we can say we are able to work. Two of them are girl's post seasons; the other 2 are boy's post season tournaments. All of the state finals are not run on the same weekend nor do they run at the same places. It is impossible to work very deep in all of those tournaments at once and even if you could by avoiding a specific night, they have not allowed anyone to work both very often. And many times the choice is going to be made for you if you try to work both. As I said, if you work in a girl's conference, there is no guarantee you are going to work in the boy's side of that same conference. And in many cases officials have not been allowed to work both because they are labeled on one side or the other as I said before. And in my state, it is harder to get a boy's varsity game than it is to work a girl's varsity game. Many officials default to the girl's side because they cannot get games in boy's basketball. And frankly I think it takes a different skill level to work boy's games when the girl's side has different expectations (from coaches as well) on how the game is called and what is not called. And the fact that a coach is even talking about how bruised his girl's got and how physical the game was tells a huge story in that respect. I rarely hear a boy's coach talk about his player had a bruise on their elbow because of fouls that were not called. Another reason why I just leave that side alone as much as possible.

Peace

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This isn't going to be a popular response, but sadly it contains a great deal of truth.

Complaining won't change anything. The state/local association likely won't do anything, unless a lawsuit gets filed. With what schools are currently paying HS officials, you are fortunate to get what you have, especially on the girls side.

There just aren't people lining up to officiating a girls JV game.

This is what I was commenting on. I think his assertion is accurate.

[Ignats75]

In Northern Ohio, the Assocaition plays no role in assigning games. Each conference has its own commissioner who is also the assignor. If this situation was as you said, around here it should be handled the following way. Ask your V coach to speak to the V officials about the incident(s). If they can coraborate your story that would be a good thing. Then write a letter to the assignor and enclose a tape of the game. Explain your side of the story. If the V officials saw it as you did, mention their names in the report so the assignor can talk to them.

My guess is, if everything is as you said, you will have seen the last of those officials.