Communication issue

[jvcoach03]

I need advice from some different officials -

Background - I am a JV coach - and I am a little loud - doesn't mean rude - but loud. I yell plays, directions, encouragements and corrections to my players. And sometimes I am a little loud with officials - (and before you get judgemental in 12 years as a HS coach I have 1 technical - and been warned 3 times to sit down and zip it - okay maybe 4)

Anyway - We played in a game last night that became VERY physical. I asked my captains to talk to the lead official because play was pretty bad around the hoop. so they asked if the official could watch physical play under the basket.

The response - loud enough for the bench to hear - "there is nothing to watch for- IF there was I would call it"

as the game progressed on there is a girl with a Major concussion, one with an elbow so swollen that she can't bend it, one with torn tendons in her shoulder and about 5 others that where all iced up at the end of the game (not all on my team)

When the elbow girl was thrown to the floor by her jersey right in front of the lead official I of course complained. She said there was no foul and threatened to throw me out. (no T given - No warning - Not asked to sit down)

What would be proper procedure to approach the association about this ref and this incident? or if I have this official again how do I properly approach them about handling very rough game play without putting them in the position of being on the defensive?

Thanks for any input

[Back In The Saddle]

If you have video of the game, send it to the state office. If it all happened as you say, this is a problem that needs to be addressed. As for how to approach the officials, it sounds to me like you handled it okay, but were inappropriately rebuffed.

Now I wasn't there, I didn't see how all this went down, I did not observe what interactions you may have had prior to this, . But if everything happened just as you describe, this is a problem. You were right to voice your concerns. And you'd be right to escalate this through proper channels.

[Adam]

I agree, taking what you're saying at face value, with BITS. Communication through your AD to the assigner would be appropriate, if your area uses a central assigner. If your AD is the assigner, then I would address it with him and see how far he wants to take it.

I'll offer my theory (the most charitable one) for this situation. There is a progression that officials go through, in general.

They start off timid, missing some calls and late on others. Sometimes they're so late they just let it go.

They then start to call anything and everything. Virtually all contact is a foul, without regard to advantage.

Then they learn about advantage/disadvantage as it applies to fouls, and have to call quite a few games and learn how to apply it properly. This normally involves letting too much contact go and learning from it. It seems like this is where your officials were last night; hopefully. I would also hope that they are evaluating themselves rather than pi$$ing and moaning about that whiny coach.

It sounds like you did what you could to talk to them, and it sounds like they were not willing to talk. It happens for various reasons. Most likely, he knew he missed it and reacted poorly to being called out.

One question I always react more positively to, is a quiet (while I'm standing near) "Why wasn't that a foul?" It's a question I can answer, and it's quiet and polite.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

If you have video of the game, send it to the state office. If it all happened as you say, this is a problem that needs to be addressed. As for how to approach the officials, it sounds to me like you handled it okay, but were inappropriately rebuffed.

Agree, take your video and get r done. Generally speakin most of us are a proud hard working bunch who love the game as much or more than most coaches and spectators. If they are truely this horrible get them out. Safety of the players should always come first and then equal administration of the true spirts of the rules. Keep doin what ur doin.

[Nevadaref]

This isn't going to be a popular response, but sadly it contains a great deal of truth.

Complaining won't change anything. The state/local association likely won't do anything, unless a lawsuit gets filed. With what schools are currently paying HS officials, you are fortunate to get what you have, especially on the girls side.

There just aren't people lining up to officiating a girls JV game.

[j51969]

[QUOTE=Nevadaref;641190]This isn't going to be a popular response, but sadly it contains a great deal of truth.

Complaining won't change anything. The state/local association likely won't do anything, unless a lawsuit gets filed. With what schools are currently paying HS officials, you are fortunate to get what you have, especially on the girls side. QUOTE]

Probably 99.9% true.

[grunewar]

[QUOTE=j51969;641276]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This isn't going to be a popular response, but sadly it contains a great deal of truth.

Complaining won't change anything. The state/local association likely won't do anything, unless a lawsuit gets filed. With what schools are currently paying HS officials, you are fortunate to get what you have, especially on the girls side. QUOTE]

j51969 - Probably 99.9% true.

99.9%? If you're talking about the officials - Not where I work. If you're talking about the lawsuits - I have no idea.

I am trying to work my way up to a full V schedule, but I'm not there yet. Tough to climb the mountain in my Association and maybe others. I still get my share of F/JV games (along with V games) as do some of my peers. As recommended on this Forum and by my mentors - never turn down a game if you don't have to and work, work, work to gain experience.

Our Association does well reporting problems to the state too.

While the statement may have some truth and it may be a high percentage, I believe your 99.9% is unfair to hard working officials trying to get ahead and to Associations who work hard supporting their officials.

My $.02

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There just aren't people lining up to officiating a girls JV game.

Not quite true around here. Two of the requirements to work playoffs are to have worked a minimum number of JV games and a minimum number of girls games. Working a girls JV game counts for both.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not quite true around here. Two of the requirements to work playoffs are to have worked a minimum number of JV games and a minimum number of girls games. Working a girls JV game counts for both.

Where I live often the assignors are different for each gender. So if you work for the girl's assignor, you may not work for the boy's assignor. And honestly, if you work a lot of girl's basketball it will eliminate you from a lot of boy's basketball (and vise versa). And for many officials when they choose, they do not choose or desire to work girl's basketball. So it does ring true if they have a choice, they are not working a JV girl's game.

Peace

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This isn't going to be a popular response, but sadly it contains a great deal of truth.

Complaining won't change anything. The state/local association likely won't do anything, unless a lawsuit gets filed. With what schools are currently paying HS officials, you are fortunate to get what you have, especially on the girls side.

There just aren't people lining up to officiating a girls JV game.

This is what I was commenting on. I think his assertion is accurate.

[Ignats75]

In Northern Ohio, the Assocaition plays no role in assigning games. Each conference has its own commissioner who is also the assignor. If this situation was as you said, around here it should be handled the following way. Ask your V coach to speak to the V officials about the incident(s). If they can coraborate your story that would be a good thing. Then write a letter to the assignor and enclose a tape of the game. Explain your side of the story. If the V officials saw it as you did, mention their names in the report so the assignor can talk to them.

My guess is, if everything is as you said, you will have seen the last of those officials.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by j51969

This is what I was commenting on. I think his assertion is accurate.

Unless there's video evidence to show that a) the officials were doing a poor job, and b) the officials were as unprofessional in their contact with the coach as he states.

In my experience, associations have a vested interest in maintaining a professional image; and state governing bodies even more so.

I recognize that there's a second (and third) side to this story, that's why I added the caveat. The thing is, I've worked with officials like this.

Now, they tend to be of a category I forgot to mention. On their way out. I worked with a guy a few times who was way past his sell-by-date. Aside from being slow to position and having poor mechanics (often hard to tell what he was calling), he was quick to get into it with fans.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by j51969

This is what I was commenting on. I think his assertion is accurate.

Fair enough. I have no reference point there.

[JRutledge]

It is a JV game, get some perspective. You can send everything to the state or the association; it does not mean you will get much better officials. As usually the officials are working that level are probably not good enough to work varsity or they would likely not be there. Honestly hope that you are not referencing an injury as a sign of anything. Basketball is a physical sport by nature. Things happen and a foul is not going to change those sore body parts. Just be happy you did not get T'd and take it as a learning experience. Just because you complain (which is technically illegal) does not mean everyone wants to hear you. And I do disagree with some here, if I warn you there is a reason. Because the next thing is I will just "stick" you and not say anything. Understand dealing with coaches and officials is an art. Not everyone has the capacity to say the right things and certainly not every official wants to hear a coach complain all night either.

Peace

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by j51969

Generally speakin most of us are a proud hard working bunch who love the game as much or more than most coaches and spectators.

This is really irrelevant. There are plenty of crappy refs who love the game. With that said, there are two sides to every story. I would take the OP with a grain of salt without knowing what really happened in the game.