back court violation in bounds question

[BillyMac]

sseltser: I've considered it, and have decided to add it to The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules list. Congratulations. You are now an official member of the mythbusters. I will soon be sending you your badge, and your secret decoder ring.



How does this sound guys? Any mistakes? Does this cover most designated throwin spots?

After a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds spot nearest the violation. This is especially true for a backcourt violation, where the ball may not necessarily be put in play at the division line, but, rather, is always put back in play at the spot nearest the violation. After an official's accidental whistle, an interrupted game, a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, or some correctable errors, play will be resumed at the point of interruption, i.e., a throwin to the team that was in control at a spot nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred. After an intentional foul, a player control foul, a team control foul, or a common foul before the bonus rule is in effect, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds spot nearest the foul. After a technical foul, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds at the division line opposite the table.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

common foul before the bonus rule is in effect, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds spot nearest the foul.

There is an exception to this for a throw-in from anywhere along the endline.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sseltser

There is an exception to this for a throw-in from anywhere along the endline.

Thanks for checking, but I'm not sure what you mean? Remember, this statement refers to a common foul before the bonus rule is in effect. A common foul is a personal foul which is neither flagrant nor intentional nor committed against a player trying or tapping for a field goal nor a part of a double, simultaneous or multiple foul. Example, please.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

.......a common foul before the bonus rule is in effect, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds spot nearest the foul.

Originally Posted by sseltser

There is an exception to this for a throw-in from anywhere along the endline.

I assume he means that if team A commits a foul while a try is in the air, if the try is successful, team B's throw-in is from anywhere on the end line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I assume he means that if team A commits a foul while a try is in the air, if the try is successful, team B's throw-in is from anywhere on the end line.

You mean a common foul against an opponent of a player committed by a teammate of a player in the act of shooting a ball, a ball that is in the air when the foul occurs, that eventually goes in the basket? Wow. Good catch sseltser, and just another ref. You guys are sharp. Thanks.

Since I just want to concentrate on designated spots in this section of the list, how's this change, in red:

After an intentional foul, a player control foul, a team control foul, or most common fouls before the bonus rule is in effect, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds spot nearest the foul.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I assume he means that if team A commits a foul while a try is in the air, if the try is successful, team B's throw-in is from anywhere on the end line.

Or if A has a throw-in from anywhere on the endline and B commits a foul during the throw-in such that the succeeding throw-in will be on the endline, then team A retains the right to throw-in from anywhere along the endline.

But BillyMac, I think that your change should fix it. (Or maybe I just opened a can of worms by thinking you already had this as a misunderstood rule.)

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

After a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds spot nearest the violation. This is especially true for a backcourt violation, where the ball may not necessarily be put in play at the division line, but, rather, is always put back in play at the spot nearest the violation. After an official's accidental whistle, an interrupted game, a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, or some correctable errors, play will be resumed at the point of interruption, i.e., a throwin to the team that was in control at a spot nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred. After an intentional foul, a player control foul, a team control foul, or a common foul before the bonus rule is in effect, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds spot nearest the foul. After a technical foul, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from the designated out of bounds at the division line opposite the table.

This is not correct: the point of interruption can be a free throw or an AP arrow throw-in, as per 4-36.

Or perhaps you meant 'e.g.' instead of 'i.e.'...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This is not correct: the point of interruption can be a free throw or an AP arrow throw-in, as per 4-36. Or perhaps you meant 'e.g.' instead of 'i.e.'.

mbyron: Thanks. Notice that I stated "some" correctable errors, because I only wanted to concentrate on designated spots in this section of the list. I did make one minor change, in red, based on your input. How's this?

After an official's accidental whistle, an interrupted game, a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, or some correctable errors, play will be resumed at the point of interruption, that is, a throwin to the team that was in control at a spot nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

mbyron: Thanks. Notice that I stated "some" correctable errors, because I only wanted to concentrate on designated spots in this section of the list. I did make one minor change, in red, based on your input. How's this?

After an official's accidental whistle, an interrupted game, a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, or some correctable errors, play will be resumed at the point of interruption, that is, a throwin to the team that was in control at a spot nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred.

Still not correct. You might have a double T just before a free throw, for example, in which case the POI is the free throw.

Or you could have an IW, a double personal or simultaneous foul during a try, in which case the POI is an AP throw in.

What exactly are you trying to simplify?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mbyron

What exactly are you trying to simplify?

You're right. Some rules can't be simplified enough to be understood by coaches, players, and fans, which is the main purpose of the The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules list. I've revised the new section, again (below), to only include sseltser's original myth, that all backcourt violations are put back into play at the division line. Thanks.

After a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from an out of bounds spot nearest the violation. This is especially true for a backcourt violation, where the ball may not necessarily be put in play at the division line, but, rather, is always put back in play at the spot nearest the violation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You're right. Some rules can't be simplified enough to be understood by coaches, players, and fans, which is the main purpose of the The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules list. I've revised the new section, again (below), to only include sseltser's original myth, that all backcourt violations are put back into play at the division line. Thanks.

After a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from an out of bounds spot nearest the violation. This is especially true for a backcourt violation, where the ball may not necessarily be put in play at the division line, but, rather, is always put back in play at the spot nearest the violation.

Billy, it seems you're simply trying to correct the misconception about the spot of backcourt violation. If that's your myth, then you're correction is much simpler. The rest of that stuff isn't really correcting a myth.

[bleurose]

As an "old-time" official (back to the 80s), I believe this isn't a myth (as in something that was never true but has taken on an aura of truth because people simply keep repeating it) but rather something that at one time WAS true and has since been changed. I distinctly recall several situations back in the 80s when throw-ins were administered either at the division line (other than if the violation was near the division line or in the case of a T or starting a period) or the free-throw line extended (I think that free-thrown violations were administrered from the free-throw line extended for the longest time until about the early 90s).

What I used to see happen back then was old-time officials would simply refuse to go along with the new rules (back then, officials organizations didn't have as much sway over their officials, at least in the case of my organizations) and so the old rules were continued until enough people made a stink and everyone finally moved on.

On the one hand, I have always found some of the rule changes and mechanics changes a bit of a pain in the butt and often failed to see the real need for them, but as they say, "resistance is futile" LOL. And sometimes, the rule changes do make sense (and make for a better game) although one change that I do NOT like is the new one with respect to trail administration of a free-throw from the table side of the court instead of opposite the table side.

This one particularly bugs me, not so much because of the need to now be close to the coach (I am fine having that "under the radar" chat with a coach after a foul call) but rather because it takes the trail official away from being able to see the bench clearly and be aware of what is happening when players are entering the court or reporting. The lead has enough to do at the end line to administer the free throw and this mechanic change means that the official has to look away at times (NEVER a good thing to do in a heated basketball game) in order to be able to see what is going on.

This is a GREAT mechanic for 3-person crews because there is another official who can look AT the table area, but in 2-person crews, I think this will cause more problems than it solves. Then again, I could be wrong.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Still not correct. You might have a double T just before a free throw, for example, in which case the POI is the free throw.

Or you could have an IW, a double personal or simultaneous foul during a try, in which case the POI is an AP throw in.
What exactly are you trying to simplify?

Assuming the try is not successful, you are correct.