Throw-in

[fullor30]

I'd say violation on A as it is the same as passing/bouncing a ball inbounds and having the ball strike OB before entering the court.

[Adam]

To me, this is similar to the RPP play where the official puts the ball on the floor for a throwin for A, and B1 comes running over and steps through and grabs the ball thinking they have the throwin. Violation on B.

In the OP, the player is allowed to dribble the ball during a spot throwin, so until they violate, it's nothing.

I've got a D.O.G. warning for B for reaching across the plane during a throwin.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've got a D.O.G. warning for B for reaching across the plane during a throwin.

9-2-10: The opponent of the thrower shall not have any part of his person through the.........plane until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass.

Ball has been released. Not intentionally, I understand. But if the ball has left the designated throw-in spot, there is no way for A1 to legally recover it. I see this either as a legal play by B1 or a violation on A1 for failing to pass the ball directly onto the court.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

9-2-10: The opponent of the thrower shall not have any part of his person through the.........plane until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass.

Ball has been released.

But not on a throw-in pass.

For me, if the ball is far enough away that A must leave the spot, then it's a violation on A. Otherwise, it's a T on B.

See (new) 9.2.1B, plus the "A1 fumbles the FT" case.

[Indianaref]

The first thing that came to mind, as Bob stated, was the free throw violation case. I have a violation on A1. However, if A1 had the privilege of running the end line, you would have a T on B2.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

The first thing that came to mind, as Bob stated, was the free throw violation case. I have a violation on A1. However, if A1 had the privilege of running the end line, you would have a T on B2.

I have to ask. What's the violation on A? What did he do wrong? Are we assuming here the the ball was so far outside the spot that A would have to leave it to retrieve it?

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I have to ask. What's the violation on A? What did he do wrong? Are we assuming here the the ball was so far outside the spot that A would have to leave it to retrieve it?

Yes, you are correct. I was assuming A1 was leaving his/her spot to retrieve the ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I'd say violation on A as it is the same as passing/bouncing a ball inbounds and having the ball strike OB before entering the court.

Dribbling is ok, and I don't know of any rule against fumbling. This doesn't become a violation, IMO, until the ball bounces in bounds or A1 steps outside the designated spot.

[Vinski]

I believe we have a violation on A1 for not throwing the ball directly onto the court.
Rule 7-6-2.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

9-2-10: The opponent of the thrower shall not have any part of his person through the.........plane until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass.
Ball has been released. Not intentionally, I understand. But if the ball has left the designated throw-in spot, there is no way for A1 to legally recover it. I see this either as a legal play by B1 or a violation on A1 for failing to pass the ball directly onto the court.

Why did you stop highlighting too early? I fixed it for you.

Originally Posted by Vinski

I believe we have a violation on A1 for not throwing the ball directly onto the court.
Rule 7-6-2.

Always listen to bob. While the ball was released, it wasn't released for a pass. "Dribbling" is explicitly allowed. If B1 reached in and stole the dribble, you'd have a T.
If the player started to throw then attempted to pull it back, fumbled, and the ball was bouncing OOB within the throwin spot, wouldn't you allow them to grab it?

Take away the defender reaching across and grabbing it, are you going to call the violation on the thrower?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Take away the defender reaching across and grabbing it, are you going to call the violation on the thrower?

See post #2. Yes, either 5 seconds or for stepping out of the throw-in spot.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

See post #2. Yes, either 5 seconds or for stepping out of the throw-in spot.

Okay, but the OP says nothing about either of those happening. It says the ball bounced out, but we don't know how far. If, as Bob alludes to, it bounces so far that A would have to violate in order to get to it, I can see the violation being called on A.

If, however, A1 can reach it without moving from the spot (quite possible if the thrower is remotely taller than a squirrel), then it's not a violation until A1 steps too far, the ball goes in bounds, or 5 seconds elapses.

I'm not going to penalize A prematurely simply because B1 committed a violation. A may have recovered otherwise.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Okay, but the OP says nothing about either of those happening. It says the ball bounced out, but we don't know how far. If, as Bob alludes to, it bounces so far that A would have to violate in order to get to it, I can see the violation being called on A.

If, however, A1 can reach it without moving from the spot (quite possible if the thrower is remotely taller than a squirrel), then it's not a violation until A1 steps too far, the ball goes in bounds, or 5 seconds elapses.

I'm not going to penalize A prematurely simply because B1 committed a violation. A may have recovered otherwise.

I made your argument in post #2 as well. But the impossibility of A otherwise recovering is what leads me to call a violation on A.

The ball has left the throw-in spot. No other A player may retrieve it, and so A1 is committed to either waiting 5 seconds or to leaving the spot to retrieve the ball.

I won't fudge and say that A1's fumble is a "pass not directly into the court," because it's not a pass at all. And I agree that it's fishy to penalize A "prematurely." He11, the whole case stinks, which is why we need to back up and ask who erred first.

I think penalizing A is a better alternative than penalizing B, who could not have violated without A's prior error. IMO this is not the intended application of the rule prohibiting reaching across the plane during a throw in, and certainly not a garden-variety instance.

Due to A1's error, A cannot legally complete the throw in here, and B preventing the actual violation does not change that fact.

[Vinski]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Always listen to bob. While the ball was released, it wasn't released for a pass. "Dribbling" is explicitly allowed. If B1 reached in and stole the dribble, you'd have a T.
If the player started to throw then attempted to pull it back, fumbled, and the ball was bouncing OOB within the throwin spot, wouldn't you allow them to grab it?

Take away the defender reaching across and grabbing it, are you going to call the violation on the thrower?

Makes sense. Thanks for breaking down like that.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why did you stop highlighting too early? I fixed it for you.



Always listen to bob. While the ball was released, it wasn't released for a pass. "Dribbling" is explicitly allowed. If B1 reached in and stole the dribble, you'd have a T.
If the player started to throw then attempted to pull it back, fumbled, and the ball was bouncing OOB within the throwin spot, wouldn't you allow them to grab it?

Take away the defender reaching across and grabbing it, are you going to call the violation on the thrower?

Not so fast.

What is the definition of a pass? A ball that is thrown, batted, or rolled to another player. If it goes to another player, isn't that essentially a pass? Since it was on a throwin, doesn't that make it a throw-in pass?

If the ball leaves the area of the thrower, I'm most likely deeming it a pass. If it bounces OOB away from the spot, then it is a throw-in violation.