Throw-in

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not so fast.

What is the definition of a pass? A ball that is released and basically goes to another player. If it goes to another player, isn't that, by definition, a pass? Since it was on a throwin, doesn't that make it a throw-in pass?

If the ball leaves the area of the thrower, I'm most likely deeming it a pass. If it bounces OOB away from the spot, then it is a throw-in violation.

If it's just floating around in the throwin spot, are you going to consider it a pass just because the defense reaches in and gets it? By that definition, my sitch with A1 dribbling during the throwin and B1 reaching across and stealing it would make be a throwin violation on A1.

[Nevadaref]

We've discussed this play before. The NCAA has a play ruling which directs the official to stop play and re-administer the throw-in, the NFHS does not.
Therefore, the thrower fumbling the ball away from the designated-spot has to be treated as failing to throw the ball directly into the court and is a throw-in violation.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Always listen to bob. While the ball was released, it wasn't released for a pass. "Dribbling" is explicitly allowed. If B1 reached in and stole the dribble, you'd have a T.

I'm glad that you put "dribbling" in quotation marks because technically the action isn't a dribble. According to Fundamental #5 the dribbling rule does not operate during a throw-in. Therefore, this is merely bouncing the ball on the floor at an OOB location.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If the player started to throw then attempted to pull it back, fumbled, and the ball was bouncing OOB within the throwin spot, wouldn't you allow them to grab it?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Take away the defender reaching across and grabbing it, are you going to call the violation on the thrower?

If the ball has left the designated-throw-in spot, then yes.

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

We've discussed this play before. The NCAA has a play ruling which directs the official to stop play and re-administer the throw-in, the NFHS does not.
Therefore, the thrower fumbling the ball away from the designated-spot has to be treated as failing to throw the ball directly into the court and is a throw-in violation.

NCAA and NFHS have different rulings for the same play. *New Case Play. Page 70, 9.2.1 Situation B, example b. After receiving the ball from the official, fumbles the ball and leaves the designated spot to retreive the fumble. Ruling:A throw-in violation shall be called on A1 for leaving the designated spot.
So, YES! NFHS does have a case ruling the play. Their interp is the violation for leaving the spot.
In my play, the ball caroms away from A1. The play happens so fast that B1 touches the ball on the OOB side of the boundary line before A1 leave the designated spot. A1 never throws/passes the ball. The only rule infraction I can see is that an opponent of the thrower reaches over the boundary line before the ball has been released on a throw-in pass and has touched the ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

NCAA and NFHS have different rulings for the same play. *New Case Play. Page 70, 9.2.1 Situation B, example b. After receiving the ball from the official, fumbles the ball and leaves the designated spot to retreive the fumble. Ruling:A throw-in violation shall be called on A1 for leaving the designated spot.
So, YES! NFHS does have a case ruling the play. Their interp is the violation for leaving the spot.
In my play, the ball caroms away from A1. The play happens so fast that B1 touches the ball on the OOB side of the boundary line before A1 leave the designated spot. A1 never throws/passes the ball. The only rule infraction I can see is that an opponent of the thrower reaches over the boundary line before the ball has been released on a throw-in pass and has touched the ball.

How far away from the spot was the ball when B1 reached across and got it?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

We've discussed this play before. The NCAA has a play ruling which directs the official to stop play and re-administer the throw-in, the NFHS does not.(snip)
If the ball has left the designated-throw-in spot, then yes.

Based on what rule? I can see calling it when it's so far away from the spot that A1 would have to leave the spot to retrieve it, but if it's just bouncing a foot or two outside the spot when B1 grabs it, I'm sticking B with the violation.

And I would argue that it's not failing to throw the ball directly onto the court, but it's leaving the designated spot.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Based on what rule? I can see calling it when it's so far away from the spot that A1 would have to leave the spot to retrieve it, but if it's just bouncing a foot or two outside the spot when B1 grabs it, I'm sticking B with the violation.

That's what I meant, but unfortunately not what I wrote.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Dribbling is ok, and I don't know of any rule against fumbling. This doesn't become a violation, IMO, until the ball bounces in bounds or A1 steps outside the designated spot.

Snaqs,

A1 attempts an inbounds pass and it hits OB before it enters inbounds and you have nothing?

That's what I was getting at and may not have worded it clearly

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Snaqs,

A1 attempts an inbounds pass and it hits OB before it enters inbounds and you have nothing?

That's what I was getting at and may not have worded it clearly

No, I have a violation, but that's not what I have on the OP. He's not attempting to throw an inbounds pass, he's attempting to "dribble" (scare quotes for Nevada's benefit) the ball.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

No, I have a violation, but that's not what I have on the OP. He's not attempting to throw an inbounds pass, he's attempting to "dribble" (scare quotes for Nevada's benefit) the ball.

I was off on another tangent in a post.

Regarding OP situation, can you liken this to a free throw where A1 fumbles and ball rolls across the free throw line( after securing it from official).............and you have a violation


Wouldn't this be the same as OP, where ball is out of designated area?

Just more food for thought.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I was off on another tangent in a post.

Regarding OP situation, can you liken this to a free throw where A1 fumbles and ball rolls across the free throw line( after securing it from official).............and you have a violation


Wouldn't this be the same as OP, where ball is out of designated area?

Just more food for thought.

That is the precedent I'm using. The key is whether it bounces so far away from the shooter that he cannot reach it without violating. If he can reach it without leaving the spot, play on and keep counting. I'd use the same reasoning with a throwin. If the ball is still within reach when the defense violates, then it's the defense that violated rather than the offense.

[bleurose]

This is my first reply to a post here but I thought I would chime in :-) I think this is pretty simple. Just administer according to the rules. If the ball gets away from the thrower, just keep counting. If you hit five, you have a 5-second violation (I might be tempted to count just a BIT faster though LOL). If you DON'T hit five and the thrower leaves his spot, you have a throw-in violation. So far this is totally easy. And if you DON'T hit five and you DON'T have the thrower-in walk out of the spot, and B reaches through the plane, you have a warning (or T if there has already been a warning).

I mean why would I penalize the A player for KNOWING the rules and not doing the wrong thing. The ball is out of their control but until the time ticks by, there is no violation. Why stop play and "antipate" the call? I can't think of any other time or situation where we are instructed to do this. In fact, the exact opposite of this is true in delayed free-throw violations. If the defender violates, we DON'T stop play and call the violation, instead we let the shooter attempt their shot and only if they miss do we call the defender for violating. I can't think of a SINGLE situation where we are instructed to PREEMPTIVELY anticipate what MIGHT happen and make a call based on that.

As another example of how we never do this anyplace else, say the ball gets loose in the backcourt near the end of a ten-second count and bounds back towards the end line and no one makes a move for it (I know that is far-fetched but for the moment assume it happens). Do you automatically stop play and call the violation because you THINK you will get to ten-seconds? No you wait until you reach 10 seconds (or at least I do).

So while I agree with several other commenters that in this case, there is no real likelihood of anything else happening, in fact there is:

a. As in this case, the defender can do something that "beats" the violation, or
b. The thrower-in can call a timeout.

Since either is a possible action that can happen, I think you just have to let things play out and call the play as it happens. No need to "over-officiate" in this case at all.