Team control

[Johnny Ringo]

Player A1 attaempts a field goal ... rebound goes long into the corner. Player A2 chases the ball that appears to be headed out of bounds ... A2 jumps and with one hand saves the throws the ball into the backcourt where A3 is first to touch.

Do you have an backcourt violation? Or do you consider A2's touch to not to be control?

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Player A1 attaempts a field goal ... rebound goes long into the corner. Player A2 chases the ball that appears to be headed out of bounds ... A2 jumps and with one hand saves the throws the ball into the backcourt where A3 is first to touch.

Do you have an backcourt violation? Or do you consider A2's touch to not to be control?

IMHO, if you deem that A2 had control of the ball before throwing it into the BC, then yes it would be a violation. However if not, then no. AND that's why you/we get the big bucks (or so has been stated here on more than one occasion).

[mbyron]

We get this question every season. Some say that saving the ball from going out of bounds always demonstrates player control, some deny it. Not much traction either way.

Anything new and pertinent?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Player A1 attaempts a field goal ... rebound goes long into the corner. Player A2 chases the ball that appears to be headed out of bounds ... A2 jumps and with one hand saves the throws the ball into the backcourt where A3 is first to touch.

Do you have an backcourt violation? Or do you consider A2's touch to not to be control?

Based on your wording ("saves and throws"), I'd have TC and a BC violation (I would also grant a TO request made while A2 was holding the ball).

If you change the scenario to "A2 bats the ball to the BC", then I have no TC and no violation.

[Johnny Ringo]

OK ... what if A2 is chasing ball down grabs it and wings it back over the top of his head and the ball flies into b/c? Would that make a difference?

Or does the majority feel that any grab and throw equals team control?

[Fritz]

I treat it more like the football justification of a catch....did the player make a "basketball" move before the throw (stopping, turning or some other type of move before releasing the ball)? If yes, BC violation. If the throw/bat/toss was all in one motion as he is headed out of bounds, then I don't have a violation.

Nice breakdown Fritz, I practice this as well.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

OK ... what if A2 is chasing ball down grabs it and wings it back over the top of his head and the ball flies into b/c? Would that make a difference?

Or does the majority feel that any grab and throw equals team control?

Look at your own words: "grabs it"

Do you consider "grab" the same as "bat" or "tip" or "deflect"?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Fritz

I treat it more like the football justification of a catch....did the player make a "basketball" move before the throw (stopping, turning or some other type of move before releasing the ball)? If yes, BC violation. If the throw/bat/toss was all in one motion as he is headed out of bounds, then I don't have a violation.

Totally disagree. A player can establish control without making a "basketball move", whatever that is. Bob's description makes much more sense:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Based on your wording ("saves and throws"), I'd have TC and a BC violation (I would also grant a TO request made while A2 was holding the ball).

If you change the scenario to "A2 bats the ball to the BC", then I have no TC and no violation.

[mbyron]

The bottom line is that an official will have to officiate this play by determining whether the player had control of the ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Nice breakdown Fritz, I practice this as well.

I disagree. No "basketball move" is required for player or team control to be established. As Bob alludes to, the key is whether there is ever a moment in which you'd grant a timeout. If the player "grabs" it, then he's established control, regardless of what he does with it afterwards.

[Back In The Saddle]

As usual, Bob is right.

When does team control begin? When a player of that team secures player control of the ball. When does player control begin? When "holding or dribbling a live ball in bounds" Holding the ball is required in order to throw it, is it not?

[Johnny Ringo]

Let me change the word grab.

A2 chases the ball down, jumps in the air and with one hand re-directs it using just one hand into the B/C ... A2 did not "bat the ball"

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Let me change the word grab.

A2 chases the ball down, jumps in the air and with one hand re-directs it using just one hand into the B/C ... A2 did not "bat the ball"

As many others have said in the thread, the official needs to decide whether the "redirect" is a "grab" or a "bat."

You seem to be looking for a "bright line" ruling -- there isn't one in this play. SOmetimes, you just need to officiate.

That said, I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the offense (that is, lean toward no violation).

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

As many others have said in the thread, the official needs to decide whether the "redirect" is a "grab" or a "bat."

You seem to be looking for a "bright line" ruling -- there isn't one in this play. SOmetimes, you just need to officiate.

That said, I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the offense (that is, lean toward no violation).

As always - WHAT BOB SAID!!!!