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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 01:39am
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Team control

Player A1 attaempts a field goal ... rebound goes long into the corner. Player A2 chases the ball that appears to be headed out of bounds ... A2 jumps and with one hand saves the throws the ball into the backcourt where A3 is first to touch.

Do you have an backcourt violation? Or do you consider A2's touch to not to be control?
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 04:20am
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Maybe - Maybe not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
Player A1 attaempts a field goal ... rebound goes long into the corner. Player A2 chases the ball that appears to be headed out of bounds ... A2 jumps and with one hand saves the throws the ball into the backcourt where A3 is first to touch.

Do you have an backcourt violation? Or do you consider A2's touch to not to be control?
IMHO, if you deem that A2 had control of the ball before throwing it into the BC, then yes it would be a violation. However if not, then no. AND that's why you/we get the big bucks (or so has been stated here on more than one occasion).
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Last edited by Lcubed48; Tue Oct 06, 2009 at 04:23am.
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 06:18am
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We get this question every season. Some say that saving the ball from going out of bounds always demonstrates player control, some deny it. Not much traction either way.

Anything new and pertinent?
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 07:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
Player A1 attaempts a field goal ... rebound goes long into the corner. Player A2 chases the ball that appears to be headed out of bounds ... A2 jumps and with one hand saves the throws the ball into the backcourt where A3 is first to touch.

Do you have an backcourt violation? Or do you consider A2's touch to not to be control?

Based on your wording ("saves and throws"), I'd have TC and a BC violation (I would also grant a TO request made while A2 was holding the ball).

If you change the scenario to "A2 bats the ball to the BC", then I have no TC and no violation.
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 11:26am
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OK ... what if A2 is chasing ball down grabs it and wings it back over the top of his head and the ball flies into b/c? Would that make a difference?

Or does the majority feel that any grab and throw equals team control?
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 11:32am
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I treat it more like the football justification of a catch....did the player make a "basketball" move before the throw (stopping, turning or some other type of move before releasing the ball)? If yes, BC violation. If the throw/bat/toss was all in one motion as he is headed out of bounds, then I don't have a violation.
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 11:42am
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Nice breakdown Fritz, I practice this as well.
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 12:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
OK ... what if A2 is chasing ball down grabs it and wings it back over the top of his head and the ball flies into b/c? Would that make a difference?

Or does the majority feel that any grab and throw equals team control?
Look at your own words: "grabs it"

Do you consider "grab" the same as "bat" or "tip" or "deflect"?
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 01:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz View Post
I treat it more like the football justification of a catch....did the player make a "basketball" move before the throw (stopping, turning or some other type of move before releasing the ball)? If yes, BC violation. If the throw/bat/toss was all in one motion as he is headed out of bounds, then I don't have a violation.
Totally disagree. A player can establish control without making a "basketball move", whatever that is. Bob's description makes much more sense:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Based on your wording ("saves and throws"), I'd have TC and a BC violation (I would also grant a TO request made while A2 was holding the ball).

If you change the scenario to "A2 bats the ball to the BC", then I have no TC and no violation.
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 02:37pm
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The bottom line is that an official will have to officiate this play by determining whether the player had control of the ball.
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 05:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town View Post
Nice breakdown Fritz, I practice this as well.
I disagree. No "basketball move" is required for player or team control to be established. As Bob alludes to, the key is whether there is ever a moment in which you'd grant a timeout. If the player "grabs" it, then he's established control, regardless of what he does with it afterwards.
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2009, 08:25pm
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As usual, Bob is right.

When does team control begin? When a player of that team secures player control of the ball. When does player control begin? When "holding or dribbling a live ball in bounds" Holding the ball is required in order to throw it, is it not?
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Old Wed Oct 07, 2009, 01:20am
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Let me change the word grab.

A2 chases the ball down, jumps in the air and with one hand re-directs it using just one hand into the B/C ... A2 did not "bat the ball"
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Old Wed Oct 07, 2009, 08:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
Let me change the word grab.

A2 chases the ball down, jumps in the air and with one hand re-directs it using just one hand into the B/C ... A2 did not "bat the ball"
As many others have said in the thread, the official needs to decide whether the "redirect" is a "grab" or a "bat."

You seem to be looking for a "bright line" ruling -- there isn't one in this play. SOmetimes, you just need to officiate.

That said, I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the offense (that is, lean toward no violation).
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Old Thu Oct 08, 2009, 04:25am
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Yessirree Bob !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
As many others have said in the thread, the official needs to decide whether the "redirect" is a "grab" or a "bat."

You seem to be looking for a "bright line" ruling -- there isn't one in this play. SOmetimes, you just need to officiate.

That said, I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the offense (that is, lean toward no violation).
As always - WHAT BOB SAID!!!!
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