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Old Mon Sep 28, 2009, 09:30pm
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Substitution Question

During the administration of technical foul free throws, can substitutes enter the game or do they have to wait until after the second free throw since the ball is dead regardless?
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Old Mon Sep 28, 2009, 09:34pm
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Substitutes are permitted during any dead ball when the clock is stopped, unless specifically prohibited by rule.
There is no rule which prohibits substitutions from taking place prior to the awarding of both technical foul FTs, between them, or following them.

There is a rule which restricts substitutions prior to just before the final FTs when multiple FTs are awarded for PERSONAL fouls, but that rule wouldn't apply to a technical foul.
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Old Mon Sep 28, 2009, 09:38pm
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I assumed since the purpose of the rule seems to be to minimize substitutions that we would only allow subs after the 2nd FT since it would be a dead ball. However, as pointed out, I see nothing to support this. All I see deals with personal fouls - not Ts.
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Old Tue Sep 29, 2009, 12:55am
rsl rsl is offline
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The rules state that any sub can shoot a technical. To shoot the technical, they would have to to sub before the first shot.

This kind of implies a sub could happen at any time, I think. See section 8-3:

8-3
The free throws awarded because of a technical foul may be attempted by any
player of the offended team, including an eligible substitute or designated starter.
The coach or captain shall designate the free thrower(s).

Just out of curiosity, could you sub between the first and second shot and have different guys shoot the two shots? I don't think this is prohibited by rule, is it?

Last edited by rsl; Tue Sep 29, 2009 at 01:00am.
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Old Tue Sep 29, 2009, 03:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsl View Post
Just out of curiosity, could you sub between the first and second shot and have different guys shoot the two shots? I don't think this is prohibited by rule, is it?
Completely legal. Note the rule says "thrower(s)". And the part of the rule just before it indicates that the thrower can be a sub.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Tue Sep 29, 2009 at 03:42am.
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Old Tue Sep 29, 2009, 03:41am
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Originally Posted by Spence View Post
I assumed since the purpose of the rule seems to be to minimize substitutions that we would only allow subs after the 2nd FT since it would be a dead ball. However, as pointed out, I see nothing to support this. All I see deals with personal fouls - not Ts.
It can also be a good thing to allow the coach to remove the guilty party as soon as possible in the event of a T.
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Old Tue Sep 29, 2009, 08:27am
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Originally Posted by rsl View Post
Just out of curiosity, could you sub between the first and second shot and have different guys shoot the two shots? I don't think this is prohibited by rule, is it?
Allowed in FED; prohibited in NCAA.
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Old Tue Sep 29, 2009, 09:08pm
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Another Sub question.

Can a sub be removed immediately after he's entered the game if the clock has not yet been restarted?
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Old Tue Sep 29, 2009, 09:10pm
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Originally Posted by bas2456 View Post
Another Sub question.

Can a sub be removed immediately after he's entered the game if the clock has not yet been restarted?
Can be removed anytime. The part about the clock being properly started is for a replaced player returning to the game.

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Old Tue Sep 29, 2009, 09:23pm
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Originally Posted by Mregor View Post
Can be removed anytime. The part about the clock being properly started is for a replaced player returning to the game.

Mregor
I see. In which case, I take it the replaced player cannot return until the clock has been restarted?
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Old Tue Sep 29, 2009, 09:35pm
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Originally Posted by bas2456 View Post
I see. In which case, I take it the replaced player cannot return until the clock has been restarted?
Yes.
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Old Wed Sep 30, 2009, 06:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bas2456 View Post
I see. In which case, I take it the replaced player cannot return until the clock has been restarted?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mregor View Post
Yes.
There may be an exception involving the team having to play with less than five players with the substitute on the bench, i.e. one of the six eligible players getting injured after the first of two free throws, before the clock has started. I don't have I citation. I believe that I heard it here on the Forum. It may have been an annual interpretation.
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Old Wed Sep 30, 2009, 11:10am
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
There may be an exception involving the team having to play with less than five players with the substitute on the bench, i.e. one of the six eligible players getting injured after the first of two free throws, before the clock has started. I don't have I citation. I believe that I heard it here on the Forum. It may have been an annual interpretation.

You remember correctly. A player who has been subbed out may, before the clock has properly started, return to the game in the event that something occurs to cause the team to have less then 5 players on the court (injury, illness, DQ, etc.) and there are no other subs available.
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Old Wed Sep 30, 2009, 06:37pm
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Citation Please ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
You remember correctly. A player who has been subbed out may, before the clock has properly started, return to the game in the event that something occurs to cause the team to have less then 5 players on the court (injury, illness, DQ, etc.) and there are no other subs available.
Camron Rust: Thanks for the confirmation. Got a citation?
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Old Wed Sep 30, 2009, 07:15pm
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Camron Rust: Thanks for the confirmation. Got a citation?
Not directly, but these two lead to that conclusion.

NFHS Rule 3-1-1 Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain. NOTE: A team must begin the game with five players, but if it has no substitutes to replace disqualified or injured players, it must continue with fewer than five. When there is only one player participating for a team, the team shall forfeit the game, unless the referee believes that team has an opportunity to win the game.

3.2 SITUATION B: A1, who is designated as a starter 10 minutes prior to the scheduled starting time of the game, becomes ill or is injured before the game starts.

RULING: A1 may be replaced without penalty as illness or injury is considered to be an extenuating and unavoidable situation which permits a substitution.
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