change call...get it right?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by daveg144

It was the trail who ran in and volunteered the information. I was prepared to go with my call (even though the player protested). The trail came in immediately with what he saw. As we talked, the center came in, but he said he did not see anything.

There was pressure and there's a good chance all 10 players were in the backcourt.

My problem was that I was too close to the play. I'm concentrating on body or hands contact (holds, grabs, push, etc.) and I did not have a good look from the waist down. When she went down, it was obviously without a foul and in my haste, I called the travel. Interestingly enough, in a game today, I had a very similar play and I was able to be patient and not call a travel.

It's all part of becoming a better official.

We still have too many Trails.

[budjones05]

While sometimes we may have two trails bc one is on didn't notice a flex, what were you? Are you talking about the old L who became the new T or did the C come in and gave you the information? Is this what you mean?

[daveg144]

He was the old trail, who was in the process of becoming the new lead, but with the pressure in the backcourt at the end of the game, he had yet to cross the division line into the "new" frontcourt. I was on the endline, the C was about even with the free throw line on the opposite side and the "new" lead (although still in a trail position) was about two feet from the division line (all 10 players were in the backcourt with us). Does that help?

[tomegun]

So the Lead came all the way to where you were to talk about a play? Honestly, how many players did he have to look through/around to do this? Keep things simple: he was the Lead.

[Johnny Ringo]

Call what you see, pass on what you don't see. And try to always get in position.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by daveg144

He was the old trail, who was in the process of becoming the new lead, but with the pressure in the backcourt at the end of the game, he had yet to cross the division line into the "new" frontcourt. I was on the endline, the C was about even with the free throw line on the opposite side and the "new" lead (although still in a trail position) was about two feet from the division line (all 10 players were in the backcourt with us). Does that help?

Okay, Dave, that helps a lot.
What you need to tell me now is if this play happened following a throw-in in the backcourt or come from a missed shot by the opponents and a defensive rebound.

That is important because it has bearing upon what YOUR positioning would have been, and when the new Lead should be leaving. He does have responsibilities on a missed shot and defensive rebound which differ greatly from an end line throw-in and subsequent trap.

So do you remember what led up to the trap in the corner?

[daveg144]

Nevada,
I am almost positive it was right after a made basket (perhaps with a time-out), because the defense had time to get set up in the press (which explains why all three of us were in the backcourt).

I was still out of bounds and the play was just in front of me (it happened in the corner, tableside).

I'd never worked with either official before and it's very possible the trail was doing some ball watching (rather than just helping me out). However, if he did clearly see that she never lost her dribble, he was correct in coming to me with the information. It was a close game and that call needed to be correct.

As I think I mentioned earlier, I was too close to the play. I was just off to the right (2 feet?) and perhaps 2 feet behind the play. I try to stay out of bounds (when becoming the new trail) until the ball clears the free throw line, but at this point, I had moved towards the play (seeing the trap coming). One move I could have made was to stal a little wide, but I was more concerned about a foul as the players reached for the ball. With that position, I did not have a great look below the waist, and as she fell, she apparently kept dribbling all the time.

A patient whistle would have been the right option. She falls...look to see what she's doing with the ball...still dribbling...hold the whistle until she's fouled or calls timeout. More times than not, a patient whistle is the way to go.

[Nevadaref]

Okay, I agree with all of that, and you have learned from this experience and will be a better official for it.

Given your information about how this play began, I would now add that the new Lead should have been focused on the players furthest down the court and not in the back corner. I would certainly have been no closer to you than the division line as the new Lead.

Had the play been from a missed try for goal, then the Lead needs to stay and officiate the rebounding activity and will have responsibility for OOB along that sideline after a defensive rebound until the old Lead, now the new Trail, can get out wide enough to cover that. In my mind that would be the only reason for the new Lead to be looking at this play. He could have been checking to make sure that none of the players violated by stepping OOB on the sideline, and seen the dribbler fall.

However, since this play occurred under circumstances in which the new Trail could obtain the proper position for covering a sideline OOB during the throw-in, I agree with you that he was likely ball-watching.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by daveg144

...

I'd never worked with either official before and it's very possible the trail was doing some ball watching (rather than just helping me out). However, if he did clearly see that she never lost her dribble, he was correct in coming to me with the information. It was a close game and that call needed to be correct...

Dave, you keep referring to the other official as the Trail. You were the Trail in this play, the other official was the new Lead.

[daveg144]

You are correct, I was the NEW trail and the "trail" I keep referring to is actually the NEW lead.