Closely Guarded Dilemma

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

And NCAA-W.

But I've been told not in Fed. or NCAA-M. And I do not understand the reason why. (Actually, I've never been told definitively why, just that it is not done.)

Question for NCAA-W. If the play starts outside the 3-point line in the corner and then is passed into the post is the Trail going to get that count or will this be the Lead's new primary.

[ILMalti]

If the rules were applied as the book says we would have a consistency across the board. Until the rule changes or is officially interpreted differently then it should be "ruled/administered" as described in 4.23 and 9.10.2-3. From what I recall the CG count is to eliminate delay tactics and get the game moving.

Based on some threads logic , we should not have a BC 10 second count if the offense move EAST to WEST? I could imagine the "noise" this would create I realize that this is a stresh in my discussion

If the rule is followed, nobody can argue. It is in black and white (so to speak) supported by the appropiate BB bodies. I think it is when officials ( I am a young official) who know the rulling and apply them at their discretion is one of the reasons we have so many issues with fans, players and coaches .

For example would a diagonal movement constitue a drive to the basket or just a East-2-West move?

The offense have up to 14 seconds (4.9 sec hold, 4.9 sec dribble 4.9 sec hold integer) to stop a violation from happening that is a very long time and credit should be given to the defense for preventing the ball to move towards the basket.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by ILMalti

If the rules were applied as the book says we would have a consistency across the board. Until the rule changes or is officially interpreted differently then it should be "ruled/administered" as described in 4.23 and 9.10.2-3. From what I recall the CG count is to eliminate delay tactics and get the game moving.

Based on some threads logic , we should not have a BC 10 second count if the offense move EAST to WEST? I could imagine the "noise" this would create I realize that this is a stresh in my discussion

If the rule is followed, nobody can argue. It is in black and white (so to speak) supported by the appropiate BB bodies. I think it is when officials ( I am a young official) who know the rulling and apply them at their discretion is one of the reasons we have so many issues with fans, players and coaches .

For example would a diagonal movement constitue a drive to the basket or just a East-2-West move?

The offense have up to 14 seconds (4.9 sec hold, 4.9 sec dribble 4.9 sec hold integer) to stop a violation from happening that is a very long time and credit should be given to the defense for preventing the ball to move towards the basket.

You are right. We all do much better when we stick to the rules. Of course, that requires knowing and understanding the rules. But they're not always straightforward and easily understood. The reason for this discussion is that the closely guarded rule really is unclear. Some pretty knowledgeable and reasonable people have weighed in and the final answer is...still unclear.

Or at least the HS rule, perhaps the FIBA rule reads differently and is more clear?

So...what do you think? If the dribbler is attempting to run out the clock, is not advancing toward the basket and not intending to, and the guard is trailing along "squarely behind" him, is he still guarding the dribbler? What role does "in the path" play in making that determination?

The rulebook itself tells us that it is necessary to understand the intent of the rules to know how to intelligently apply them to game situations. So, how do you feel the intent of the closely guarded rule factors in to its application? Do you take "forcing the action" into considerations when faced with a situation where you have to decide whether to count? Do you consider rewarding/not penalizing the defense when deciding whether to count?

And what does "credit should be given to the defense" mean? Do you realize that making such a statement indicates that you have a personal philosophy toward this rule that colors your thinking about it?

Isn't this fun?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

You are right. We all do much better when we stick to the rules. Of course, that requires knowing and understanding the rules. But they're not always straightforward and easily understood. The reason for this discussion is that the closely guarded rule really is unclear. Some pretty knowledgeable and reasonable people have weighed in and the final answer is...still unclear.
....

Isn't this fun?

I was just going to answer in about the same way...but you saved me a lot of typing.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Question for NCAA-W. If the play starts outside the 3-point line in the corner and then is passed into the post is the Trail going to get that count or will this be the Lead's new primary.

In NCAA-W, the corner and post are both in L's primary. In the case where the ball is in the corner, L would be focused on that matchup, while the T will cover the post players as a secondary matchup. If the pass goes into the post, as I understand it, it will be L's decision whether or not to follow the ball into the post, or stay with the matchup in the corner. If there's an intense trap in the corner for example, L could stay with that matchup, and the L's body language will tell the T they will officiate that trap and the T needs to stay in the post. If there's no real matchup in the corner, the L will follow the ball into the post.

So, to answer your question, theoretically either one could have that count. More often than not the L will have it though.