Situation at camp...

[zeedonk]

OK-

Lead called a foul off the ball. I thought he made a call on the ball (which would have been my primary, and no, I don't know why he signalled 3, he should not have). When he indicated one shot is where I got us together to discuss.

I said there should be no shot as foul was off the ball. C seemed to be OK with going with the foul on the shooter theory since he didn't see if there was one or not.

Lead never answered me if the foul was on the shooter, he was just bringing in the shooter for the foul shot. As I didn't get an answer and I told him what I thought, I let him have it his way, knowing it was wrong and we were gonna catch hell for it.

Afterwards, I was not going to disagree with the observers, I just told them what I saw and what I did. They started by saying "the one thing I cannot forgive is not knowing the rules- a foul off the ball does not get a foul shot except intentional or one/one and why did the shooter shoot the FTs?"

I assumed that we were getting killed because Lead called an off ball foul, it was not a one/one situation and Lead brought the shooter in to shoot one shot instead of the guy that was fouled. I knew it was wrong but decided on the spot not to make a specatcle of the situation b/c Lead didn't appear willing to change anything. So I let him live with it and decided that I was OK getting some heat from staff because 1- I knew it was wrong and 2- I can handle it and if it became a bigger issue, I would have gone further to protect myself.


Now is there a difference if this is a "tryout" camp? Is it then every man for himself and you can toss the partner under the bus? I suppose in that situation you may think twice how to proceed...

Originally Posted by zeedonk

Now is there a difference if this is a "tryout" camp? Is it then every man for himself and you can toss the partner under the bus? I suppose in that situation you may think twice how to proceed...

Not at all. Throwing your partner under the bus should be frowned upon at all levels.

I think you missed a prime opportunity to shine for your rules knowledge, communication skills & dedication to getting it right.

"Partner, I had the shooter up & down, there was no foul there. If you had something off-ball, we aren't in the bonus so we should take the ball out. I'll accept full responsibility if this is wrong, it's up to you to change this call for the GAME."

After that exchange, you have done all can do to get it right.

[dsqrddgd909]

Thanks Ch1. From my newbie POV that is a great explanation of how to handle it.
I'm gonna bronze this e-mail, wear it under my compression shirt and refer to it on all double whistles.

[hoopguy]

Just a thought... You keep mentioning tryout camp vs instructional camp. I may be off base here but I can't tell you how many times I have been given the advice "Always give your best game because you never know who is watching"

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

Thanks Ch1. From my newbie POV that is a great explanation of how to handle it.
I'm gonna bronze this e-mail, wear it under my compression shirt and refer to it on all double whistles.

Hold on to your bronzing because I disagree. But first a story.

About 5 years ago, Jamie Luckie told us about a situation where he was the L and a 3-point shooter was fouled in such a way that the T couldn't see it. He had high certainty that the foul happened an blew the whistle. The common sense he used when talking about this play is the fact that if a foul is missed, especially one he saw, the coach 1.) wasn't going to go after the guy 30 feet away, but the guy 5 feet away and 2.) he couldn't tell the coach "it wasn't my area" on a call so close to him. Now, I'm all for staying in your area, but I would like to know what others think of this situation. I understand both sides, but there are so many situations where you can see something and have to make a decision to put air in the whistle based on the position of the players (if they are (still) in your primary).

Keeping that in mind, I don't think it is a good thing tell my partner I had no foul in such a manner as Ch1town suggests. What I would do is ask my partner what he/she had, for clarification, and proceed appropriately. If something is about to go down that I know is wrong and my partner is unwilling to accept the information I have, I will say something that would begin like, "For the record, I think we need to..." The ultimate goal is to get out of the situatio without kicking a rule, but if an official puts air in the whistle, it is their call.

[Nevadaref]

If an official doesn't communicate to his partner who the foul is on, then the only way that one can know is to listen to him report to the table and learn what # was charged with the foul.

Then if you happen to recall the number of the on-ball defender, which most people don't if they decide there's no foul there, then you would have a hope of dealing with the FT situation.

Otherwise, I'd tell any evaluator, "I asked him, and he wouldn't answer."

The problem lies in the lack of communication, not in the lack of rules knowledge.