foul or travel?

[rsl]

A1 and B1 are both chasing a loose ball, with lots of incidental contact. A1 jumps in front of B1, controls the ball in mid air and lands with both feet simultaneously. A1's momentum, combined with a generous bump from B1, causes A1 to take a rather large hop with both feet.

Is this

(1) foul on B1
(2) travelling on A2
(3) no call

This happened in a rec league game. I could not call foul on B1, they both had equal rights to the ball and neither had position. In real time, I saw the hop and called travel, but now that I have time to think I might go with a no call. This might be a HTBT situation, but what do you think?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rsl

A1 and B1 are both chasing a loose ball, with lots of incidental contact. A1 jumps in front of B1, controls the ball in mid air and lands with both feet simultaneously. A1's momentum, combined with a generous bump from B1, causes A1 to take a rather large hop with both feet.

Is this

(1) foul on B1
(2) travelling on A2
(3) no call

This happened in a rec league game. I could not call foul on B1, they both had equal rights to the ball and neither had position. In real time, I saw the hop and called travel, but now that I have time to think I might go with a no call. This might be a HTBT situation, but what do you think?

The only clearly incorrect choice is #3.

The action which you have described MUST be either a foul or a travel.

The referee gets to make a judgment decision about the amount of contact and whether it placed A2 at a disadvantage or not. If the referee decides that A2 got to that spot of the floor first, then B1 is not allowed to bump him out of it whether he has the ball or not. That's a foul.

If the contact occurred prior to A2 reaching that spot, then it could be ruled incidental, but the transgression made by A2 in his footwork after controlling the ball can't be overlooked.

From reading your description, I would be most likely to charge B1 with a foul.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rsl

A1 and B1 are both chasing a loose ball, with lots of incidental contact. A1 jumps in front of B1, controls the ball in mid air and lands with both feet simultaneously. A1's momentum, combined with a generous bump from B1, causes A1 to take a rather large hop with both feet.

Is this

(1) foul on B1
(2) travelling on A2
(3) no call

This happened in a rec league game. I could not call foul on B1, they both had equal rights to the ball and neither had position. In real time, I saw the hop and called travel, but now that I have time to think I might go with a no call. This might be a HTBT situation, but what do you think?

Maybe neither had position, but it sounds like A1 got the spot first...you did say A1 jumped in front of B1 and landed with the ball while trying to stop when B1 ran into A1 and bumped him.

Like Nevada said, you are left with calling a foul or a travel....a no call is not acceptable...and which one to call depends on exactly the criteria Nevada mentioned...did the bump cause the travel or A1 was going to travel anyway.

[mbyron]

I called that foul in my last game of last season. The coach of the fouling player was directly behind me as I turned to report it. I kinda shrugged to him because I knew it wasn't much of a foul, but before I could say anything he said, "you had to call that one."

Ordinarily this coach has no problem getting into an official's face, so that reaction surprised me a little.

[Adam]

These are the calls I have my most delayed whistles on. A bump by B1 causing A1 to travel is a foul on B1.

[rsl]

In this case, I think I made the right call. A1 tried to grab the ball and stop on a dime, and he didn't quite make it. B1 was trying to stop while A1 was still in the air but had no where to go.

On a block/charge, you are watching the defenders feet and you set up for the call. I think this situation caught me off guard- In the loose ball situation I wasn't watching carefully for the position like I should. Tough call- I'll know better next time.

Thanks for the replies!

If illegal contact causes a violation the contact must be penalized... no matter what the player was "trying" to do.
Say the same play happened near a sideline & the bump caused A1 to step on the line. You can't go no-call there & if you call the OOB I'm sure As coach wil let you know that his player didn't step out on his own will.
What came first the chicken (bump) or egg (violation)?

It seems as though you let what you think they are "trying to do" affect your decisions.

Unless, it's a end of game situation I don't think players are ever trying to foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rsl

In this case, I think I made the right call. A1 tried to grab the ball and stop on a dime, and he didn't quite make it. B1 was trying to stop while A1 was still in the air but had no where to go.

On a block/charge, you are watching the defenders feet and you set up for the call. I think this situation caught me off guard- In the loose ball situation I wasn't watching carefully for the position like I should. Tough call- I'll know better next time.

Thanks for the replies!

The questions:
1. Did B1's contact cause A1 to travel? If yes, move on to question 2. If no, Travel.
2. Who was responsible for the contact, by rule. If A1, travel. If B1, foul on B1.

It does not matter what B1's intent was. This play happens often, actually. Player running behind another player "tries" to stop but can't. It's still a foul. Defender was "trying" to block the shot cleanly but smacks an elbow instead. It's still a foul.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

These are the calls I have my most delayed whistles on. A bump by B1 causing A1 to travel is a foul on B1.

I concur.....

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

What came first the chicken (bump) or egg (violation)?

Since we all know which came first, I think your metaphor is barking up the wrong egg.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by rsl

A1 and B1 are both chasing a loose ball, with lots of incidental contact. A1 jumps in front of B1, controls the ball in mid air and lands with both feet simultaneously. A1's momentum, combined with a generous bump from B1, causes A1 to take a rather large hop with both feet.

Is this

(1) foul on B1
(2) travelling on A2
(3) no call

This happened in a rec league game. I could not call foul on B1, they both had equal rights to the ball and neither had position. In real time, I saw the hop and called travel, but now that I have time to think I might go with a no call. This might be a HTBT situation, but what do you think?

RSL:

I have highlighted in red the answer to your question. From your description of the play it is not a HTBT type of play.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Say the same play happened near a sideline & the bump caused A1 to step on the line. You can't go no-call there & if you call the OOB I'm sure As coach will let you know that his player didn't step out on his own will.

Didn't this exact scenario unfold in the final seconds of a "big time" Division I NCAA mens game this past season, I believe late in the season, possibly in a conference tournament. Team A was down by a point with a few seconds to go. A1 was dribbling near his backcourt sideline, seventy feet away from the basket, when for some idiotic reason B1 decides to defensively challenge A1's progress. There was a tiny bit of contact and the official called the foul, and A1's bonus free throws won the game. The official was criticized for calling the foul, with such little contact, when the dribbler was so far away from his basket, but the replay showed that the contact caused A1 to step on the sideline. If the foul wasn't called, then an out of bounds violation would have been called, and then the official would have gotten grief for that.

I remember an internet video that was making the rounds. Does anybody else remember, or can anyone locate the internet video?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Didn't this exact scenario unfold in the final seconds of a "big time" Division I NCAA mens game this past season, I believe late in the season, possibly in a conference tournament. Team A was down by a point with a few seconds to go. A1 was dribbling near his backcourt sideline, seventy feet away from the basket, when for some idiotic reason B1 decides to defensively challenge A1's progress. There was a tiny bit of contact and the official called the foul, and A1's bonus free throws won the game. The official was criticized for calling the foul, with such little contact, when the dribbler was so far away from his basket, but the replay showed that the contact caused A1 to step on the sideline. If the foul wasn't called, then an out of bounds violation would have been called, and then the official would have gotten grief for that.

I remember an internet video that was making the rounds. Does anybody else remember, or can anyone locate the internet video?

It was Villanova vs. Georgetown near the end of the season two years ago. The game was tied and the foul was called near the 28' mark in the backcourt with less than a second left. Georgetown made two FTs and won the game.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It was Villanova vs. Georgetown near the end of the season two years ago. The game was tied and the foul was called near the 28' mark in the backcourt with less than a second left. Georgetown made two FTs and won the game.

Well that's fine, but WHO called that foul?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Well that's fine, but WHO called that foul?

Ask a Villanova fan.