Foul? Travel?

[ChuckElias]

Here's a real life play that we've discussed in theory. What are your thoughts?

A1 attempts a try near A's basket. There is minor contact as B1 tries to draw the charge. No foul call. B1 ends up on the floor near the basket just as A2 secures the rebound. One of A2's feet lands on B1 and A2 trips, going to the ground while holding the ball.

This happened in my Juco game today. What's the call? Foul on B1? Or travel on A2?

(I think I got it wrong. )

[Num33BallerCCS]

Well I'm not a ref so don't go by what I say... but I don't think it would be a travel unless he got up off of the floor after he fell to it.

And I don't think it would be a foul on B1, since A2 initiated the contact by landing on him.

[Dan_ref]

4-33-4a ar 23

Foul on B1.

[Num33BallerCCS]

well there you go ;D

Officiating is a hard job. I think my head would asplode if I tried.

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Here's a real life play that we've discussed in theory. What are your thoughts?

A1 attempts a try near A's basket. There is minor contact as B1 tries to draw the charge. No foul call. B1 ends up on the floor near the basket just as A2 secures the rebound. One of A2's feet lands on B1 and A2 trips, going to the ground while holding the ball.

This happened in my Juco game today. What's the call? Foul on B1? Or travel on A2?

(I think I got it wrong. )

I had a travel until I read Dan's "illegal defensive position". Very cool!
Thanks, Sparky!
mick

Hmmm. Now I wonder what happens if a rebounder comes down on an opponent's foot, instread of the opponent's stomach.

[Edited by mick on Nov 27th, 2005 at 10:15 PM]

[Oz Referee]

I certainly have a foul - the defender can't have position when lying on the floor. But I would be pretty lenient in this sitch - it would have to cause a significant disadvantage for me to pin a player on hte ground for a foul.

As far as landing on someone's foot - this is (IMHO) a no call.

[blindzebra]

Interesting that this play would not be a foul on B1 under FED rules in 2004-5 case play 10.6.1 Situation E.

This case play is no longer in the case book.

I am not aware of any change in the interpretation on this play, so is this now a foul in NFHS play?

[BktBallRef]

Situation F is missing as well.

But both are in the ARS version of the Case Book.

Hmph!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Situation F is missing as well.

But both are in the ARS version of the Case Book.

Hmph!!

Situation F has been re-numbered to Situation D.

They took Situations A, E & G outa last year's book. The ones that were left were re-numbered. Situation A was an explanation of guarding principles and the ruling for last year's SitG is certainly still valid. Kinda leads one to believe that the old "landing on an opponent on the floor" case that was removed is still valid also. Maybe.

[crazy voyager]

foul on B1, and probably B's doctor in, getting a big basketball player on your stomach, ouch ouch ouch

[truerookie]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Here's a real life play that we've discussed in theory. What are your thoughts?

A1 attempts a try near A's basket. There is minor contact as B1 tries to draw the charge. No foul call. B1 ends up on the floor near the basket just as A2 secures the rebound. One of A2's feet lands on B1 and A2 trips, going to the ground while holding the ball.

This happened in my Juco game today. What's the call? Foul on B1? Or travel on A2?

(I think I got it wrong. )

Travel! How? it is apparent during the try for goal an official failed to stay with the play. It was stated there was minor contact. It was also stated that B1 ends up on the floor. How? Was it from the minor contact or was it from A1 returning to the floor after the try for goal which causes B1 to be on the floor GP? Or flopping?
Great situation!!!!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
4-33-4a ar 23

Foul on B1.

Yeah. I called it a travel. I had both options in my head and it happened so fast, and it was on the other side of the floor (2-whistle) and I came up travel. I was hoping that my partner would have something. I immediately didn't like it; but to be honest, I didn't like the foul either.

We talked about it after the game and we both decided it was a bad call.

In the same game, we had a double whistle on a drive. I was Lead, but held my signal and looked at my partner. He yielded, I called a block and awarded 2 shots. Coach says, "But it went in!" #$%@!!! Partner didn't see it. I didn't see it, b/c we were looking at each other. Nobody at the table saw it go in, so we went with 2 shots. Looked awful, tho.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by truerookie
Travel! How?

Falling to the floor while holding the ball is a travel.

it is apparent during the try for goal an official failed to stay with the play.

I don't think that's true. What makes that apparent?

It was stated there was minor contact. It was also stated that B1 ends up on the floor. How?

The contact was not enough to call a foul. B1 wasn't pushed down. He may have tripped over a teammate after the contact. Minimal contact/no foul/defender goes to the floor. That happens all the time. I don't think it means a call was missed.

It was not at all an unusual play, except that A2 landed on B1.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
[/B]

In the same game, we had a double whistle on a drive. I was Lead, but held my signal and looked at my partner. He yielded, I called a block and awarded 2 shots. Coach says, "But it went in!" #$%@!!! Partner didn't see it. I didn't see it, b/c we were looking at each other. Nobody at the table saw it go in, so we went with 2 shots. Looked awful, tho. [/B][/QUOTE]The TRAIL in a 2-man wasn't watching to see if a shot went in?

Oh my!

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

In the same game, we had a double whistle on a drive. I was Lead, but held my signal and looked at my partner. He yielded, I called a block and awarded 2 shots. Coach says, "But it went in!" #$%@!!! Partner didn't see it. I didn't see it, b/c we were looking at each other. Nobody at the table saw it go in, so we went with 2 shots. Looked awful, tho. [/B]

The TRAIL in a 2-man wasn't watching to see if a shot went in?

Oh my!

[/B][/QUOTE]
JR,
Trail may have had a Team Control and didn't give a hoot whether the ball went in, or not.
mick