Act of shooting

Mens wreck last night:

A1 dribbles the length of the court & immediately upon gathering the ball at the FT line, B1 fouls A1 (tweet). A1 takes 2 steps & misses the shot.

I say A1 shoots 2 FTs my more veteran partners say “he wasn’t in the act” when the foul occurred.
Thoughts??

Why is it soooooo difficult for us as officials to understand that once the ball is gathered on a drive to the bucket, that’s when the act of shooting begins… unless he passes the ball. That's one of the reasons we should have a patient whistle on North/South plays. So many of us say “that’s NBA”.
Isn’t the rule the same in all 3 codes???

[justacoach]

IMHO, continuous motion is one of the most frequently miscalled plays in all officialdom, present company excluded....
I believe our dear friend Jurassic had a noteworthy observation: Instead of trying to discern when the habitual motion begins, first focus on when the dribble stops, the next logical action is a pass or shot. It always seems much clearer from this perspective.

On the floor ???!!!xsh)-%$!~ is not a proper verbalization in this circumstance.

In my coaching days I was often heard to ask "When did the foul occur?", where is inconsequential.

/rant off

[Adam]

I counted a shot this year just like this, one FT. I could have gone with the X, but chose not to.

The coach complained about the shot counting. I should have gone with the X.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I counted a shot this year just like this, one FT. I could have gone with the X, but chose not to.

The coach complained about the shot counting. I should have gone with the X.

Are we to assume the shot went in the basket?

X=Intentional?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Are we to assume the shot went in the basket?

X=Intentional?

Yes, the ball went in. Yes, X = intentional.

[BillyMac]

Continuous Motion: If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Mens wreck last night:

A1 dribbles the length of the court & immediately upon gathering the ball at the FT line, B1 fouls A1 (tweet). A1 takes 2 steps & misses the shot.

I say A1 shoots 2 FTs my more veteran partners say “he wasn’t in the act” when the foul occurred.
Thoughts??

I say that there is no way to tell from the above description whether A1 was in the act or not.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I say that there is no way to tell from the above description whether A1 was in the act or not.

Why not?

Is he driving to the basket?

Has he gathered the ball (both hands on the ball)?

Then he has started the shooting motion - unless he passes it off, he was shooting. Give him his free throws.

[Raymond]

When in doubt I give 'em 2 shots. Helps to discourage those types of fouls, IMO.

Thanks for the responses! I thought I was interpreting the rule correctly. But when vets who are at a level I'd like to be, are like "no because he took 2 steps after the whistle" I had to bring it to the forum for clarification.

Afterall, this IS where I learned to apply so many of the rules correctly

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Why not?

Is he driving to the basket?

Has he gathered the ball (both hands on the ball)?

Then he has started the shooting motion - unless he passes it off, he was shooting. Give him his free throws.

He was at the free throw line. He may have pulled up because B1 (who is 6' 10)
was blocking his path. A lot of variables are not spelled out in the OP.

Originally Posted by just another ref

He was at the free throw line. He may have pulled up because B1 (who is 6' 10)
was blocking his path. A lot of variables are not spelled out in the OP.

Negative, although he gathered the ball he did not "pull up" it was a drive to the bucket.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Negative, although he gathered the ball he did not "pull up" it was a drive to the bucket.

Yeah - we all got that. Well, most of us got that.

[BOFARMA]

[QUOTE=Ch1town;602096]Mens wreck last night:

A1 dribbles the length of the court & immediately upon gathering the ball at the FT line, B1 fouls A1 (tweet). A1 takes 2 steps & misses the shot.

[QUOTE=Snaqwells;602743]As we all know, 2 steps has nothing to do with whether a player traveled. It's all on where the feet were when the ball was gathered.

We only have what Ch1town gave us. Most of the time, when a player is dribbling, his feet are on the floor. Upon gathering the ball ? Snaqwells,This is when you find a pivot foot. Now if A1 takes 2 steps, Let's say 3 steps, 4 steps.
No shot, inbound the ball.
You can give 2 shots , with the five year old kids.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BOFARMA

We only have what Ch1town gave us. Most of the time, when a player is dribbling, his feet are on the floor. Upon gathering the ball ? Snaqwells,This is when you find a pivot foot. Now if A1 takes 2 steps, Let's say 3 steps, 4 steps.
No shot, inbound the ball.
You can give 2 shots , with the five year old kids.

I'm aware of the traveling rule, but thanks for the breakdown. However, on a coast-to-coast drive, players rarely gather the ball with a foot on the floor; this is why layups look like two steps. Is "takes 2 steps" really accurate? No, because he's really only stepping once before jumping once the pivot foot hits the floor.

That said, the popular perception is that it's two steps. And again, the obvious point of the OP was about the shooting motion starting, not questioning whether the player traveled. And Ch1town had already clarified that point in this post:

Originally Posted by Ch1town

No sir, forgive me for my poor verbage but please believe me when I say A1 did not exceed the prescribed limits.