pivot foot: drag vs lift

[Mregor]

I was at a camp with Verne Harris and he said "You don't want traveling to be your best call."

Mregor

[refguy]

Originally Posted by Mregor

I was at a camp with Verne Harris and he said "You don't want traveling to be your best call."

Mregor

A very poor outlook in my opinion and a cop out for some officials' failure or refusal to call it. Traveling is just another call that needs to be called. That kind of mindset puts the wrong team at a disadvantage. It is tremendously difficult to legally guard players who are allowed to travel without a whistle. How many times is there a foul on the defense after officials fail to call traveling?

Again I quote Verne's boss:
4. I'm not sure what our problem with traveling is. I believe most Division I referees can recite the rule and understand it so I am left with the assumption that they don't get in good position to see the whole play start, develop, and finish.

[Nagy0716]

if you really focus on the players feet the whole time and nothing else im sure you can have a whistle everytime down the court...advantage-disadvantage...unnescessary game stoppages in my opinion

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Mregor

I was at a camp with Verne Harris and he said "You don't want traveling to be your best call."

Mregor

im sorry but i want to be the best at every call, but traveling is a very hard call to make especially when you have supreme athletes to referee.

the basic principle should be as with refereeing every basketball play, "when you're certain, blow the whistle and dont guess and if you're unsure but if you think it was a travel don't call it.

Also just wanted to add and point out that when players "stop too fast" as RSL alluded too, it is very often that the dribbler "double taps" his non pivot foot which alot of referees mistake for a travel. i have seen that happen more than a drag of the actual pivot foot. my personal observation.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

im sorry but i want to be the best at every call, but traveling is a very hard call to make especially when you have supreme athletes to referee.

I don't think you get it. The remark is supposed to point out that nobody advances just because they're really good at calling traveling.

[refguy]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I don't think you get it. The remark is supposed to point out that nobody advances just because they're really good at calling traveling.

The problem with these guys is that they've ignored it for so long they don't know how to call it. The National Coordinator made it a point of emphasis during the season and I've seen more whistles on non-travels than ever before. Yes it does take tremendous work to get better at being able to referee the defense and still see the travels, but it can be done. The best way is to move to get better position to be able to see it all. IMO, that's the main reason a lot of those guys don't pick it up - because they're out of position and many are too slow to get there consistently.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I don't think you get it. The remark is supposed to point out that nobody advances just because they're really good at calling traveling.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by refguy

The problem with these guys is that they've ignored it for so long they don't know how to call it. The National Coordinator made it a point of emphasis during the season and I've seen more whistles on non-travels than ever before. Yes it does take tremendous work to get better at being able to referee the defense and still see the travels, but it can be done. The best way is to move to get better position to be able to see it all. IMO, that's the main reason a lot of those guys don't pick it up - because they're out of position and many are too slow to get there consistently.

I will say this again as I have said it before. I love how people are sitting at home on their couch, and they can call the game better with a DVR, then a beer in their hand. There is no doubt that travels are missed in these games, but we miss them to at all levels. At least some of these travels are things that look funny and we only know by a replay. I see officials often call travels on things that looked funny similar to the things BillyMac posts on this site (you do not need to do it again Billy ). To say they simply ignore traveling is not only false, but not accurate considering there were several called in the tournament.

Peace

[refguy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Exactly.



I will say this again as I have said it before. I love how people are sitting at home on their couch, and they can call the game better with a DVR, then a beer in their hand. There is no doubt that travels are missed in these games, but we miss them to at all levels. At least some of these travels are things that look funny and we only know by a replay. I see officials often call travels on things that looked funny similar to the things BillyMac posts on this site (you do not need to do it again Billy ). To say they simply ignore traveling is not only false, but not accurate considering there were several called in the tournament.

Peace

I did say that there were several called and at least 40% of the ones called that I saw were wrong not counting the travels that when uncalled. When I first started playing in college, our coach would bring in officials to officiate practice and answer questions. I can still remember what one of the officials (a final four official) said: "If it looks funny, it will get called."
To me that's lazy and unfair to the players. I can't even count the times I heard officials at camp say - Don't let traveling be your best call. To me there should be no difference between the ability to properly adjudicate violations and fouls. What's the point of being able to judge contact on a play if traveling occurs 1st?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by refguy

I did say that there were several called and at least 40% of the ones called that I saw were wrong not counting the travels that when uncalled. When I first started playing in college, our coach would bring in officials to officiate practice and answer questions. I can still remember what one of the officials (a final four official) said: "If it looks funny, it will get called."
To me that's lazy and unfair to the players.

That is interesting. I have been to a lot of camps and I have never heard anyone suggest call something that is funny. I have heard "make it be there" but not "if it looks funny...." But does that example not put holes in your point of view a bit?

Originally Posted by refguy

I can't even count the times I heard officials at camp say - Don't let traveling be your best call. To me there should be no difference between the ability to properly adjudicate violations and fouls. What's the point of being able to judge contact on a play if traveling occurs 1st?

In theory that sounds great. Calling traveling violations is such a subjective thing to see and has a lot of judgment to it. There are many more traveling possibilities than there are with most fouls. Every time someone starts or ends a dribble and every time a player gets control of the ball there are possibilities of a violation. Not the same thing with other fouls or even violations.

Peace

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I don't think you get it. The remark is supposed to point out that nobody advances just because they're really good at calling traveling.

Thanks mbyron, im pretty sure i got it. I also get that a missed call is a missed call, it still goes down on the paper as a IC or NCI regardless of the type of call.