Spin Move are traveling violations

[wbrown]

Just about every spin move I have seen in this tournament has been travel but nobody calls it. Why?

YouTube - Kansas Defeats Memphis for 2008 NCAA Basketball Championship

This is from last year tournament but I have recorded many games high school and college. I slowed them down and almost every spin move has been a travel.

Watch this video and stop it at the 1:35 mark. The big man has the ball and his pivot foot has been established. Then he steps to the basket and puts his pivot foot back on the floor before he releases the ball.

[Adam]

You're right, they missed that one. And? I haven't really seen any that blatant that get missed.

[Raymond]

They missed a couple against Villanova today.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by wbrown

Just about every spin move I have seen in this tournament has been travel but nobody calls it. Why?

YouTube - Kansas Defeats Memphis for 2008 NCAA Basketball Championship

This is from last year tournament but I have recorded many games high school and college. I slowed them down and almost every spin move has been a travel.

Watch this video and stop it at the 1:35 mark. The big man has the ball and his pivot foot has been established. Then he steps to the basket and puts his pivot foot back on the floor before he releases the ball.

FIBA's video collection for 2007 and 2008 both contains travel videos and the spin move is specifically shown to be a travel. In other cases, it shows when it's not a travel. There is a HUGE difference in real estate covered.

[just another ref]

These were everywhere you looked tonight, it seemed. If this is indeed an NCAA rule, traveling that is, and if there has not been a memo stating that "pretty moves shall not be called violations," then you would think this call would be made at least occasionally. Is this hard to see with 100% certainty? Yes. But would it be unforgivable if someday this move was called a travel, when in reality it was not? But it's okay to allow the illegal move, roughly, a jillion times a season.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But it's okay to allow the illegal move, roughly, a jillion times a season.

A jillion? C'mon JAR, I've told you over a thousand times not to exagerate!

[hoopguy]

If you go to eofficials.com then go to the womens ncaa section. There are a bunch of online videos stressing this exact move. The head of the women's officiating is telling the ncaaw officials to make this traveling call on the spin move where the offensive player goes off two feet after lifting the pivot foot.

It is strange that the rules for ncaam and ncaaw are different(at least it seems that way and I do know that they are not supposed to be except in a few instances).

The holding is another area of difference. The online videos stress that when hands are put upon a player then it should be called a foul and they show an example when the foul is not called the offensive player then elbows the defender and the first hands foul not being called caused the second foul by the offensive player.

[Raymond]

As a 'Nova fan I have to admit Cunningham has gotten away with a few travels over the last couple games. Last night he travelled into an And-1.

[refguy]

Originally Posted by hoopguy

If you go to eofficials.com then go to the womens ncaa section. There are a bunch of online videos stressing this exact move. The head of the women's officiating is telling the ncaaw officials to make this traveling call on the spin move where the offensive player goes off two feet after lifting the pivot foot.

It is strange that the rules for ncaam and ncaaw are different(at least it seems that way and I do know that they are not supposed to be except in a few instances).

The holding is another area of difference. The online videos stress that when hands are put upon a player then it should be called a foul and they show an example when the foul is not called the offensive player then elbows the defender and the first hands foul not being called caused the second foul by the offensive player.

The rules are the same. John Adams this year has been exasperated by official's failure to call traveling well at all. Direct quote:

4. I'm not sure what our problem with traveling is. I believe most Division I
referees can recite the rule and understand it so I am left with the assumption that they don't get in good position to see the whole play start, develop, and finish. Remember, the trail official can help with travels in the low post!

I'm not sure I agree with him on one part - that most officials understand what traveling is. I remember I did a simple up and under move as a demonstration at a clinic where I lifted my pivot foot, released the ball on a shot before it touched the floor again. Just about every men's official there said traveling (including a final 4 official) while most women's officials there said legal play. Another official (D1 Tournament) at a clinic told coaches that if it looked funny it would get called. I think the biggest problem is that they don't work on improving in this area.

I actually called a travel on a spin move in a HS boys reserve game this year, and the coach started jawing it was a good move. I told coach to watch that spin move next time, and tell me how it's NOT a travel. Coach just couldn't see it. My partner noticed the next one, and he called it. I think in that game alone we called it about 10 times and both coaches just couldn't get it. The AD was complimenting us after, saying the first one caught him by surprise, but the rest, he started to see the trend, and was just dumbfounded neither coach could figure it out!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

I actually called a travel on a spin move in a HS boys reserve game this year, and the coach started jawing it was a good move. I told coach to watch that spin move next time, and tell me how it's NOT a travel. Coach just couldn't see it. My partner noticed the next one, and he called it. I think in that game alone we called it about 10 times and both coaches just couldn't get it. The AD was complimenting us after, saying the first one caught him by surprise, but the rest, he started to see the trend, and was just dumbfounded neither coach could figure it out!

The kids are clearly picking up this move from the TV and must be practising it. I've seen it become prevelant in the past couple of years and it is frustrating when some officials don't call it.

[bradfordwilkins]

Called one last night. They were livid hah.

[jalons]

I worked a game this season with a D1 women's official who gave me this piece of advice as it pertains to the spin move and traveling:

If the inside foot on the spin move is replanted, the player has probably committed a traveling violation. In other words, if the player jumps off two feet it is probably traveling. If the player jumps off one foot to shoot, the play is probably legal.

Of course, this depends on when the ball is actually secured by the ball handler.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jalons

I worked a game this season with a D1 women's official who gave me this piece of advice as it pertains to the spin move and traveling:

If the inside foot on the spin move is replanted, the player has probably committed a traveling violation. In other words, if the player jumps off two feet it is probably traveling. If the player jumps off one foot to shoot, the play is probably legal.

Of course, this depends on when the ball is actually secured by the ball handler.

Probably better to just find the pivot foot and then see if it gets replanted.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by jalons

I worked a game this season with a D1 women's official who gave me this piece of advice as it pertains to the spin move and traveling:

If the inside foot on the spin move is replanted, the player has probably committed a traveling violation. In other words, if the player jumps off two feet it is probably traveling. If the player jumps off one foot to shoot, the play is probably legal.

Of course, this depends on when the ball is actually secured by the ball handler.

So, it sounds like the official has to know what the pivot is, and if it replants again to the floor, it is a travel.

Good advice.