Spin Move are traveling violations

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

So, it sounds like the official has to know what the pivot is, and if it replants again to the floor, it is a travel.

Good advice.

Actually, on many of the moves in question, it is obvious that both
feet are lifted then returned to the floor.

[JRutledge]

I always find it interesting how people sit on their couch and claim what officials miss. I wonder if I went to their games and could role back the tape and see what they missed.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I always find it interesting how people sit on their couch and claim what officials miss. I wonder if I went to their games and could role back the tape and see what they missed.

Peace

Not just a claim. It's there. Many of the travels discussed here are obvious to me when they happen, and yes, I have the benefit of dvr to confirm the play.
The point is, the guys calling the tournament are supposed to be on another level. I find it difficult to believe that they miss this many calls of this type. Therefore, one must conclude that the travel is in many cases ignored. The question is why?? I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer.
Perhaps you have one.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Not just a claim. It's there. Many of the travels discussed here are obvious to me when they happen, and yes, I have the benefit of dvr to confirm the play.

You are right, you have the benefit of your DVR. The officials on the floor did not.

Originally Posted by just another ref

The point is, the guys calling the tournament are supposed to be on another level. I find it difficult to believe that they miss this many calls of this type. Therefore, one must conclude that the travel is in many cases ignored. The question is why?? I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer.
Perhaps you have one.

What makes you think they "ignored" (your word) a travel as opposed to just missed a travel?

My point is that I bet if I go to your game, I probably can find a lot of things missed (travels, carries, fouls, judgments). I know when I watch tape of myself. I do not see perfections either. Then again I am not coming here stating that they missed but I would do better. Now that is your right to say that, but it is a lot easier to say what should be called on the sideline. And in my opinion spin moves are very difficult to identify at a higher speed than most of us ever see. I would rather have a technically missed travel and a travel that did not take place being called. I wish I had a dollar for every time I see a non-violation called by high school officials, I would be rich.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What makes you think they "ignored" (your word) a travel as opposed to just missed a travel?

If they are missing the same violation over and over, if they never watch video, see this call missed over and over, if their supervisor, with benefit of his dvr, did not point out these missed calls, their system is no better than mine.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If they are missing the same violation over and over, if they never watch video, see this call missed over and over, if their supervisor, with benefit of his dvr, did not point out these missed calls, their system is no better than mine.

By this statement it is rather clear you do not work a lot of college ball. You obviously are putting the “system’ on some level you clearly do not understand. These officials might be good, but the make some of the same mistakes we do.

Secondly there are priorities in officiating. And a missed travel does not mean you are a horrible official. I saw a missed carry last night too, the sky is not falling.

Peace

[mick]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're right, they missed that one. And? I haven't really seen any that blatant that get missed.

Early on, I had seen lotsa:

A1 receives pass with both feet on the floor. A1 hops and lands to set feet, and then elevates for a perimeter jumper.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You obviously are putting the “system’ on some level you clearly do not understand.

I clearly do not understand this statement, because it is meaningless.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I clearly do not understand this statement, because it is meaningless.

Obviously that is the case when you compared what they do at their level to your level.

NEWSFLASH!!!!

Evaluators are not spending hours talking about every little travel that took place or that is missed. This is not the NBA we are talking about where the NBA actually goes over every play and every call and non-call in a game.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Obviously that is the case when you compared what they do at their level to your level.

NEWSFLASH!!!!

Evaluators are not spending hours talking about every little travel that took place or that is missed. This is not the NBA we are talking about where the NBA actually goes over every play and every call and non-call in a game.

Peace

Rut is right. The officials in Div 1 basketball are independent contractors and on the road almost everyday, so they don't have the time to sit down with the assignor every week, and analyze the tapes like the NBA officials. The NBA officials are employees who have to meet with their boss every week and go through the tapes. The only thing that can happen at Div 1 level, is a school could send a tape into the conference assignor with specific "concerns" on which the assignor will take a look at, and if there is any issue, then the assignor will contact the official(s) and have a discussion regarding it.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

By this statement it is rather clear you do not work a lot of college ball. You obviously are putting the “system’ on some level you clearly do not understand. These officials might be good, but the make some of the same mistakes we do.

Secondly there are priorities in officiating. And a missed travel does not mean you are a horrible official. I saw a missed carry last night too, the sky is not falling.

Peace

This is key when officiating the post. At camps I've been to, observers and supervisors have said want the defender officiated first and foremost. With my eyes on the defender, my peripheral vision would have to catch a "elephant" travel than an "ant" travel to make that call.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

NEWSFLASH!!!!

Evaluators are not spending hours talking about every little travel that took place or that is missed.

Originally Posted by refguy

John Adams this year has been exasperated by official's failure to call traveling well at all. Direct quote:

I'm not sure what our problem with traveling is. I believe most Division I
referees can recite the rule and understand it so I am left with the assumption that they don't get in good position to see the whole play start, develop, and finish. Remember, the trail official can help with travels in the low post!

That makes two of us, John.

[mick]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

This is key when officiating the post. At camps I've been to, observers and supervisors have said want the defender officiated first and foremost. With my eyes on the defender, my peripheral vision would have to catch a "elephant" travel than an "ant" travel to make that call.

But the Trail can't take the play off, eh ?

[refguy]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Rut is right. The officials in Div 1 basketball are independent contractors and on the road almost everyday, so they don't have the time to sit down with the assignor every week, and analyze the tapes like the NBA officials. The NBA officials are employees who have to meet with their boss every week and go through the tapes. The only thing that can happen at Div 1 level, is a school could send a tape into the conference assignor with specific "concerns" on which the assignor will take a look at, and if there is any issue, then the assignor will contact the official(s) and have a discussion regarding it.

All these officials are provided dvd's after every single game they do. Supervisors ask that they review their games. The problem is as stated above: they do too many games and don't take the time to review tape and get better. I had multiple partners this year gripe about waiting for the dvd after the game because "I ain't watching it anyway." Most coaches will say players improve more during practice than during the game. Is it any different for officials? These guys are working more games in a shorter period than NBA guys and gal where it's their job. Then in the off-season are they breaking down film of their games? Or are they busy catching up with their job they haven't been to for 4 months? Or are they at camps as observers busy working on other people's game instead of their own?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by refguy

All these officials are provided dvd's after every single game they do. Supervisors ask that they review their games.

So if they review and see 40 of these spin moves, and see that 37 of them are travels, it seems that they might call one a travel eventually.

Unless they have been told to ignore travels in certain situations. The (non) call on this play is very consistent. But if there is a rule which will never be enforced, whether it be traveling or shirt tails, it should be changed in the books.