Stay out of my pond!

[Kelvin green]

-While I agree that most players do not fall down by themselves there are times when there is contact between feet that just is not a foul...In a confined space there is time when there just is not a foul..

While I cannot see all agles of the play... Philosophically can you penalize a defender that did not do anything wrong?

-Where did the 2 of 4 (rythym, balance, speed and quickness)plus illegal contact become a foul?

-Illegal contact is a foul.. (remember there is legal contact). If there is contact often we use rythym, balance, speed and quickness to determine if there was an advantage/disadvantage or if the contact was incidental.

If there is contact and it changes even one of the four I might have a foul...

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

If there is contact and it changes even one of the four I might have a foul...

Not sure how it fits this description, but the contact in this case caused the guy to basically fall on his face.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Hey, Dexter. Nice to have you posting again. Hope you are doing well.

I don't know if it will alter your opinion, but humor me by going back and reading what I wrote in posts #11 and #27, and usung the video link provided therein to see if you can pick-up the clipping of the foot that I mention. It is difficult to see from the given angle and without super slow-mo, but I do believe that it is there and caused the trip.

I've watched the play about a half-dozen times now and still don't see any contact between Blue 15 and White 2. When I look closely, I see B15's right foot hitting the back of his left calf, his right foot then plantarflexes and his toe hits the floor, dragging him a bit and causing him to fall - tripping over his own feet.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

I've watched the play about a half-dozen times now and still don't see any contact between Blue 15 and White 2. When I look closely, I see B15's right foot hitting the back of his left calf, his right foot then plantarflexes and his toe hits the floor, dragging him a bit and causing him to fall - tripping over his own feet.

From what I saw #2's leg contacted #15's right leg causing it to go into the back of his left leg.

#2's father is a buddy of mine, I'm gonna ask him this week if there was any contact. I trust his son will provide an honest answer.

[BktBallRef]

The fact that so many people have looked at this play and disagree about whether there's a foul or whether there's even contact makes my point that you don't make this call from lead.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The fact that so many people have looked at this play and disagree about whether there's a foul or whether there's even contact makes my point that you don't make this call from lead.

Unless the L's angle (which none of the cameras could show) gave her a view none of us had.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The fact that so many people have looked at this play and disagree about whether there's a foul or whether there's even contact makes my point that you don't make this call from lead.

I agree that it's very hard to make this call from the lead, but if we ever get to see the look the lead had, I think we'll all agree there was contact.

[BillyMac]

From the videos posted, I don't see any contact at all, legal, or illegal. The ball handler tripped himself.

If the lead had a better angle than the trail, and than the cameras, and saw some contact, then I have no problem with him making the call because the contact that he saw certainly put the ball handler at a disadvantage, he fell, and went into the backcourt. I just hope that he didn't guess from the lead.

[refguy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I agree that it's very hard to make this call from the lead, but if we ever get to see the look the lead had, I think we'll all agree there was contact.

Don't need to see that angle to see the contact. This is to the point of hilarity that referees on here cannot see the foul. I saw it the 1st time and on each subsequent replay CBS showed. As #15's foot passes #2's calf, watch it change direction and go behind his other foot causing him to fall. I guess not all are created with equal eyesight or ability.
What happens when you see a foul - not in your primary and your supervisor asks if you saw it. Are you gonna say it's not my primary or just say you weren't looking there as many use that cop out.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From the videos posted, I don't see any contact at all, legal, or illegal. The ball handler tripped himself.

If the lead had a better angle than the trail, and than the cameras, and saw some contact, then I have no problem with him making the call because the contact that he saw certainly put the ball handler at a disadvantage, he fell, and went into the backcourt. I just hope that he didn't guess from the lead.

Even if there was contact (which I clearly have not seen any by replays), then I still do not see how this is a foul. The Kansas player ran up the back of the MSU player. If that is a foul, then we miss a lot of fouls in the game of basketball. Other than him falling, nothing the MSU player did or would have done was illegal.

Peace

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by refguy

I guess not all are created with equal eyesight or ability.

You got that right.

Some people know the rules.

Some people know the rules and HOW TO APPLY them properly.

There's a difference.

A difference that you - to the point of hilarity - seem to miss time and time again.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Unless the L's angle (which none of the cameras could show) gave her a view none of us had.

Exactly why you don't make such a call that far out of your area unless Ray Charles could make the call, sitting 50 rows up.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Here's a screenshot of the play - trail is just off screen, straddling the centre line, and then takes two steps along the sideline, into the FC.

That's the problem. They were playing with a "centre" line. No wonder things got messed up. Everyone was metrically disoriented.

[tomegun]

If we were to say there was contact, are some people suggesting that a player with his back to the offensive player is responsible for that player trying to run past him? Wouldn't this open up a can of worms since any player could simply run into a player that doesn't see him/her and get a foul called?

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

That's the problem. They were playing with a "centre" line. No wonder things got messed up. Everyone was metrically disoriented.

It's what happens when you refuse to play FIBA like everybody else