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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 01:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
I think everyone agrees that it was no basket. The question is who, if anyone, committed a violation. What was your idea about the call?

Once again, I preface this by saying I'm going solely on memory from watching the game and I haven't looked at any replay.

But from my memory, I don't remember saying to myself the U of A player actually committed a violation. But I do remember that play happening and everyone just stopping and freezing cause they were caught off guard. That's when Shaw stepped in.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 06:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar View Post
The new T missed it for some reason. C is all over it and comes from mid-court and properly gives the traveling signal. Good call on an awkward situation.
I'm not very familiar with three person mechanics, but could the new trail have missed it because as the old lead he may have thought the ball went in because, as the lead, he should not have been looking up at the basket.

Let me tell you a story. Everybody get comfortable. A few years ago, I was working a high school varsity Christmas tournament. I was the lead in a two man game, this is Connecticut, we use 20th century mechanics. As the lead, I'm watching some of the larger players jockey for rebounding position as a shot by Team A goes up from the top of the key. No displacement, nor illegal contact, is observed by me. Out of the corner of my eye, with my peripheral vision, I notice that the net on the basket "swishes", and the ball, continues it's trajectory after it goes "through" the basket, bounces once inbounds, and then bounces out of bounds. I wait for Team B players to pick up the ball that passed "through" the basket when some odd things begin to happen. A Team B player picks up the ball, and gives me a questioning look for a second, or two, before making the throwin to a teammate inbounds. At the same time I heard some "murmurs", and "grumbling", coming from the crowd, and bench area. I look at my partner and he's looking at me like I'm from Mars, not Mars, Pennsylvania, but Mars, the fourth planet from the Sun. So while Team B is bringing the ball upcourt, against no backcourt pressure from Team A, I decide to put some air into my whistle to figure out what the heck was going on. I ask my partner, who replied by asking me, why I didn't blow my whistle, and hand the ball to the inbounder, after the ball went out of bounds. I replied that it was a made field goal, to which he replied that the ball never went in, the shot was short and "swished" the net under the basket ring. I did get some compliments for keeping my eyes down as the lead from the next game's varsity officials, who were in the stands. And they lived happily ever after. Now, if you're all good little Forum members, tomorrow I'll tell you a story about a five second count that "magically" changed into a ten second count that ended up with a technical foul. Goodnight.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Mar 22, 2009 at 07:03am.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 10:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
That's exactly what happened. Of the 13 people on the floor, Curtis Shaw was the only one who knew what was going on. He blew the travel on the AZ player before the Utah player could do anything with it.
Except that no one on AZ travelled with the ball. A1 missed the dunk, and A2 rebounded the ball and immediately dropped it. Shaw blew his whistle when the B1 had the ball and it was B1 who travelled but Team B ended up with the throw-in.

All in all not a big deal but the correct call was not made.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 10:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Except that no one on AZ travelled with the ball. A1 missed the dunk, and A2 rebounded the ball and immediately dropped it. Shaw blew his whistle when the B1 had the ball and it was B1 who travelled but Team B ended up with the throw-in.

All in all not a big deal but the correct call was not made.
I'm pretty sure A2 took a few steps, based off of my memory.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 11:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
I'm pretty sure A2 took a few steps, based off of my memory.
He did not.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 11:37am
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Here it is, unfortunately typical crappy youtube quality
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 12:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyezen View Post
Here it is, unfortunately typical crappy youtube quality
Didn't see this play before this clip....


What should have been called was BI on the shooter...A1 (Arizona).

After that, the A2 (Arizona) touched the ball but did NOT travel....he wasn't touching the ball long enough for his feet to have moved while touching it. The defensive player he flipped it (Utah) to did travel before starting a dribble.

While the usually sharp Mr. Shaw was on his toes in recognizing something goofy and illegal just happened, he didn't get it quite right.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 01:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post

What should have been called was BI on the shooter...A1 (Arizona).
While I don't have an NCAA rule book handy, I would think BI is pretty much the same as in NFHS where a dunk is legal and not considered BI. It was just an odd play where he cause it to come back out. But not BI.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 01:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LocDog249 View Post
While I don't have an NCAA rule book handy, I would think BI is pretty much the same as in NFHS where a dunk is legal and not considered BI. It was just an odd play where he cause it to come back out. But not BI.
NFHS 4-6 SECTION 6 Basket interference occurs when a player:
ART. 1 Touches the ball or any part of the basket (including the net) while the ball is on or within either basket.
ART. 2 Touches the ball while any part of the ball is within the imaginary cylinder which has the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: In Arts. 1 or 2, if a player has his/her hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if such contact with the ball continues after it enters a basket cylinder or if in such action, the player touches the basket. Dunking or stuffing is legal and is not basket interference.
ART. 3 Touches the ball outside the cylinder while reaching through the basket from below.
ART. 4 Pulls down a movable ring so that it contacts the ball before the ring returns to its original position.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 01:29pm
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Even though it was only a partial explanation do I still get a prize for this one? j/k
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 02:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LocDog249 View Post
While I don't have an NCAA rule book handy, I would think BI is pretty much the same as in NFHS where a dunk is legal and not considered BI. It was just an odd play where he cause it to come back out. But not BI.
The BI was not for the hand being in contact with the ball/basket in the process of the dunk. It would be for, after he released the rim, grabbing the bottom of the net while the ball was in the basket (which is what caused it to pop out)....noting that the definition of BI doesn't depend on which team does it (meaning we'd be counting the basket had the a defender done the same).
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 02:01pm
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Originally Posted by LocDog249 View Post
Even though it was only a partial explanation do I still get a prize for this one? j/k
No, because it was not relevant.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 03:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
The BI was not for the hand being in contact with the ball/basket in the process of the dunk. It would be for, after he released the rim, grabbing the bottom of the net while the ball was in the basket (which is what caused it to pop out)....noting that the definition of BI doesn't depend on which team does it (meaning we'd be counting the basket had the a defender done the same).
So you are telling me that had this ball gone all the way through and cleared the bottom of the net, and player A1's hand hits the net after he lets go of the rim, you are going to wave off the basket and call BI?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 04:05pm
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I am a Utah fan... (I did not see the game though) but this should have been Arizona ball.

It looks like everyone just assumed that the dunk counted, that's why the AZ player flipped the ball back to the Utah player, and then both Utah players were just dumbfounded and walked with the ball "bringing it back in"...

Right call, wrong direction...
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 09:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LocDog249 View Post
So you are telling me that had this ball gone all the way through and cleared the bottom of the net, and player A1's hand hits the net after he lets go of the rim, you are going to wave off the basket and call BI?
No.
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