Signal the '3' then wave it off......

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

During the normal course of the game I mark the 3 when the player alights from behind the 3-point line. However, in last second shot situation where I have clock responsibilities I make it a practice to mark the 3 only if the shot is released in time, otherwise I'm immediately waving it off.

Agreed, and more often than not, a last second three attempt is taken in desparation and well beyond the line, so it's obviously a three attempt which wouldn't require a quick mark.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Agreed, and more often than not, a last second three attempt is taken in desparation and well beyond the line, so it's obviously a three attempt which wouldn't require a quick mark.

Obviously?

I would not go that far. For one thing all games do not need a 3 point shot to end the game if the game is close. And if the foot is on the line that needs to be clarified some way.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Agreed, and more often than not, a last second three attempt is taken in desperation and well beyond the line, so it's obviously a three attempt which wouldn't require a quick mark.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Obviously?

I would not go that far. For one thing all games do not need a 3 point shot to end the game if the game is close. And if the foot is on the line that needs to be clarified some way.

Peace

If it's well beyond the line, it is unlikely that a foot would be on the line.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If it's well beyond the line, it is unlikely that a foot would be on the line.

Hmmmmmm, I was not referring only to his example. This conversation was about a concept, not a specific statement/reference/example.

Thanks for playing.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

The kid gets fouled and you have not marked it as a three, you are going to have a hard time selling something. (If he is back on the floor; he no longer is in shooting motion)...

I signal the three as he is going up (signals that he is in act of shooting) so if he gets foued, it's easy to know it was a three...

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is exactly why I signal when I do. This is a great point about the fouled shooter and not waiting until the player hits the floor.

Peace

I agree with this. If you don't have the "3" up when the kid gets fouled, it's going to be harder (though obviously not impossible) to convince anyone that it should be 3 free throws.

The whole point of signals and mechanics is to help us communicate better. This seems to me to be a good example of communicating early, so there's no surprises when the call is actually made.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

My opinion waiting to mark the three until he comes back to the floor is going to be way late and cause more problems than waiting

The kid gets fouled and you have not marked it as a three, you are going to have a hard time selling something. (If he is back on the floor; he no longer is in shooting motion)...

I signal the three as he is going up (signals that he is in act of shooting) so if he gets foued, it's easy to know it was a three...

As you say, going up with the ball a good deal of the time will result in a shot, but not always...I've seen many times kids go up for what should be a shot, then see the nearby defender and dish it off at the last second to a teammate, thinking the shot will be blocked. If they're still fouled during the pass, then it's not in the act of shooting, and they only get FTs if their team is in the bonus. So now if you've got your 3 signal while he was going up, you've got to explain to the offensive team why you've signaled 3 points, yet they're not getting any FTs (unless in bonus, in which case you explain why it's 1 and 1 or 2, instead of 3). This is why, getting back to my previous assertions, I think you hold off on the 3 signal until the ball is released, and by then you know if the horn has gone off and whether or not the ball was released in time. If they get the ball off in time, go up with your signal. If not, then no 3 signal, and wave everything off...

And it's not going to be "way late" for returning to the floor. These kids don't have Jordan-esque hang time. After they release their shot at the top of their jump, you've got maybe a half-second or so before they return to the floor.

[jeffro]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

The Center official "marks" the three point shot as soon as the player's feet leave the floor (the ball is still in his hands)...I like to wait until the player has returned to the floor to "mark" the three point attempt...this helps me bring the shooter back to the floor safely. It also eliminated "marking" a three point attempt and then have the shooter pass the ball.

Did this in a game, my P told me that was the best 3 point pass he has ever seen. We both laughed and I learned from it.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by jeffro

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Did this in a game, my P told me that was the best 3 point pass he has ever seen. We both laughed and I learned from it.

What did you learn?

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What did you learn?

That raising your arm as soon as the player jumps, you'll be signalling many 3 point passes.

"Act of shooting" and "try for goal" are different concepts, at least in the NCAA and FIBA rules (I guess the distinction is also in NFHS rules). The signal is for a "three point try for goal" which begins when the ball leaves the player's hands, not when the act of shooting starts.

Ciao

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

That raising your arm as soon as the player jumps, you'll be signalling many 3 point passes.

And this is a bad thing why?

BTW, I have been doing it this way; I might go 10 or 20 games before that even happens. What does happen more often is contact almost immediately after a player goes airborne or some contact afterwards. I do not see what is so wrong if a player mid-jump decides to change their mind.

Originally Posted by eg-italy

"Act of shooting" and "try for goal" are different concepts, at least in the NCAA and FIBA rules (I guess the distinction is also in NFHS rules). The signal is for a "three point try for goal" which begins when the ball leaves the player's hands, not when the act of shooting starts

Huh? What does is this supposed to mean or have anything to do with this conversation?

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

a "three point try for goal" which begins when the ball leaves the player's hands, not when the act of shooting starts.

Ciao

This is absolutely not true in NCAA or NFHS. The try for goal begins when the "habitual motion" preceding the release begins.

As I and others have pointed out, if you put up the signal at the beginning of the trying motion (that is, when he jumps from beyond the arc), you're telling everyone that you're awarding 3 free throws if he's fouled. The ball doesn't have to be released to award the 3 free throws. If the player passes the ball instead of shooting it, then you simply put down the signal. I don't see the problem with this, personally.

It seems there is simply a difference of opinion on whether this is a reasonable thing to communicate. The fact that I might signal a "3-point pass" doesn't seem to be a good enough reason not to put up the signal when the trying motion begins.

[jeffro]

Hey Scrapper, I guess all I meant was that I learned that I should slow down a bit. Be sure of what I am signaling before I signal it, that's all.