Stupid Question ???

[BillyMac]

My son sent me an email tonight about a call that he disagreed with in his graduate school intramural game. I replied to him with this rule:

NFHS Rule 7-2-1: The ball is caused to go out of bounds by the last player in bounds to touch it or be touched by it, unless the ball touches a player who is out of bounds prior to touching something out of bounds other than a player.

I was able to answer his question with the first half of the rule, but then I realized that I have no idea what the second half of the rule (in red), means. What does this mean? Can you give me an example? I'm sure that it's an easy explanation, I'm just having this mental block.

[just another ref]

The inbounds player who threw it out of bounds caused it to be out of bounds, unless the throw hit another player who was standing out of bounds, in which case that player caused it to be out of bounds.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My son sent me an email tonight about a call that he disagreed with in his graduate school intramural game. I replied to him with this rule:

NFHS Rule 7-2-1: The ball is caused to go out of bounds by the last player in bounds to touch it or be touched by it, unless the ball touches a player who is out of bounds prior to touching something out of bounds other than a player.

I was able to answer his question with the first half of the rule, but then I realized that I have no idea what the second half of the rule (in red), means. What does this mean? Can you give me an example? I'm sure that it's an easy explanation, I'm just having this mental block.

It covers situations such as these:

7.2.2 SITUATION: A throw-in by A1 (a) strikes B1 who is inbounds and
rebounds in flight directly from B1 and then strikes A1 who is still out of bounds;
(b) is batted by B1, who is inbounds and the ball is next touched by A1 who is
still out of bounds. RULING: A1 caused the ball to go out of bounds and it is
awarded to Team B at that spot for a throw-in for both (a) and (b).

[Raymond]

Had this play in my last game of the season this past Friday.

A1 mishandles defensive rebound and ball heads OOB. A1 jumps over the endline, grabs the ball, and throws it very hard at B1. Balls bounds off B1 and hits A1, who is now standing OOB, then balls lands on floor. A1 caused ball to go OOB by touching ball while standing OOB. Ball then touched something OOB, the floor.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Had this play in my last game of the season this past Friday.

A1 mishandles defensive rebound and ball heads OOB. A1 jumps over the endline, grabs the ball, and throws it very hard at B1. Balls bounds off B1 and hits A1, who is now standing OOB, then balls lands on floor. A1 caused ball to go OOB by touching ball while standing OOB. Ball then touched something OOB, the floor.

Why did you add this part? You obviously know that it is irrelevant.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Why did you add this part? You obviously know that it is irrelevant.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it was added because of the way the rule reads:

7-2-1: ........unless the ball touches a player who is out of bounds prior to touching something out of bounds other than a player.



It's sad that you had to ask this.

[JugglingReferee]

As JAR outlines, it includes language used to separate the responsibility of the ball first hitting OB a player and a non-player.

The statement is well-worded, but does usually prompt a question from many people when read. (I've had a coach before ask me about this one.)

BadNewsRef's statement isn't irrelevant because by including the fact that the ball hit the floor, it "completes the circuit" (think electricity) of when a ball must becomes dead. It just so happens that a player was OB and the ball hit them first.

I have found in the years that I've trained guys, what might first go through someone's mind, that the ball hitting the floor means the ball is OB, but then they realize that A1 was OB and therefore the ball was already dead. Then they realize that they (but shouldn't) wait for the ball to hit the floor before blowing the whistle and stopping the clock.

I understand that newbies that do this might not be at Nevada's skill level yet.

The opposite, and similar way of thinking is when A1 inbounds to A2, but with pressure from B1. The pass is tipped by B1. I know that there are guys in every area that wait for the ball to be touched by A2 before chopping in time. I've seen it all over my fair province of Ontario and I believe it happens elsewhere too. (Not by me though. )

[BillyMac]

Thanks guys. For some reason the wording just threw me. I never really read this rule so closely before, that is, before I emailed it to my son, because it's so easy to understand the rule in a real game situation. The examples given now make it perfectly clear.

Was this rule any different over 30 years ago, before I started officiating? When I first started, I seem to recall a recent change in this rule. That may explain the detailed wording in the present rule.

Now, where are my keys?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS Rule 7-2-1: The ball is caused to go out of bounds by the last player in bounds to touch it or be touched by it, unless the ball touches a player who is out of bounds prior to touching something out of bounds other than a player.

I think that the red part is confusing because it's unclear what "prior to" refers to. From the sentence construction, it seems as if it would mean that the player is OOB prior to touching something. But that doesn't make sense.

Once you realize is that the "prior to" refers to the ball touching an out-of-bounds player before it touches anything else out of bounds, you're good to go.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I think that the red part is confusing because it's unclear what "prior to" refers to. From the sentence construction, it seems as if it would mean that the player is OOB prior to touching something. But that doesn't make sense.

Once you realize is that the "prior to" refers to the ball touching an out-of-bounds player before it touches anything else out of bounds, you're good to go.

I make a motion that mbyron edits the FY09/10 versions of the Rule and Case Books! Do I hear a second?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My son sent me an email tonight about a call that he disagreed with in his graduate school intramural game. I replied to him with this rule:

NFHS Rule 7-2-1: The ball is caused to go out of bounds by the last player in bounds to touch it or be touched by it, unless the ball touches a player who is out of bounds prior to touching something out of bounds other than a player.

I was able to answer his question with the first half of the rule, but then I realized that I have no idea what the second half of the rule (in red), means. What does this mean? Can you give me an example? I'm sure that it's an easy explanation, I'm just having this mental block.

Okay, Billy, what was the ruling your son objected to?

[26 Year Gap]

[QUOTE=BillyMac;585583]Thanks guys. For some reason the wording just threw me. I never really read this rule so closely before, that is, before I emailed it to my son, because it's so easy to understand the rule in a real game situation. The examples given now make it perfectly clear.

Was this rule any different over 30 years ago, before I started officiating? When I first started, I seem to recall a recent change in this rule. That may explain the detailed wording in the present rule.

Now, where are my keys?[/QUOTE]

They are in that new place that you thought was a much better place to keep them than the old place.

Originally Posted by grunewar

I make a motion that mbyron edits the FY09/10 versions of the Rule and Case Books! Do I hear a second?

Seconded!

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Seconded!

Thirded!

[Adam]

Fourthded.