What's Wrong with this Ball..

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If there are other players around when A1 tries to reconstitute his dribble, I'd call it. The OP has him hitting it with his fist, intentionally. I'm not sure how you think this doesn't qualify. If fits, but is generally only applied when safety is an issue.

I do not believe that is the intent of the rule. we see players bat the ball (with side of fist) to their teammates after a goal all night long; do you call the violation for that? No, of course not. However, if during a rebound or loose ball scrum, a player used his fist to volley the ball down court, then it applies. I simply do not believe contact with a closed hand consititutes a violation, in my judgment.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Splute

I do not believe that is the intent of the rule. we see players bat the ball (with side of fist) to their teammates after a goal all night long; do you call the violation for that? No, of course not. However, if during a rebound or loose ball scrum, a player used his fist to volley the ball down court, then it applies. I simply do not believe contact with a closed hand consititutes a violation, in my judgment.

Really? The rule is with the kick rule, and simply says striking the ball with a fist; just like it says striking the ball with a foot is a violation. Same wording, same intent.

FWIW, I never see players use their fists to pass a live ball.

You know why you don't call this or see it called? The ball is dead. You can't call a violation during a dead ball.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Really? The rule is with the kick rule, and simply says striking the ball with a fist; just like it says striking the ball with a foot is a violation. Same wording, same intent.

FWIW, I never see players use their fists to pass a live ball.

You know why you don't call this or see it called? The ball is dead. You can't call a violation during a dead ball.

Lol, very true Snaqs, it is dead, Im afraid I didnt put enough thought into that comment. However, I do not see simply dribbling the ball with a closed hand to be the same as intentionally kicking or intentionally careeming the ball with a fist, in an attempt to gain an advantage. Both of these instances may give the player an advantage and considered unsporting. Simply starting a dribble with a closed hand or dribbling the ball with a closed hand does not give the dribbler an advantage (imo); perhaps even a disadvantage. Just my opinion. But i have never seen either in a game; just at the park. Thanks for the discussion.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Splute

Lol, very true Snaqs, it is dead, Im afraid I didnt put enough thought into that comment. However, I do not see simply dribbling the ball with a closed hand to be the same as intentionally kicking or intentionally careeming the ball with a fist, in an attempt to gain an advantage. Both of these instances may give the player an advantage and considered unsporting. Simply starting a dribble with a closed hand or dribbling the ball with a closed hand does not give the dribbler an advantage (imo); perhaps even a disadvantage. Just my opinion. But i have never seen either in a game; just at the park. Thanks for the discussion.

You're right, I've never seen it either, and I've never heard of it being called in this situation. I did see a girls swing for the ball once and miss, hitting the player with the ball. I called a foul (should have gone intentional) and the coach started to whine about touch fouls and crap. I walked over to him and explained (not so calmly, I'm afraid) that his player had just hit the opponent with a fist while trying to hit the ball.

I learned two lessons on that play.

Back to the point. A player starting or continuing a dribble with a fist fits the letter of this rule, and in most cases, violations are not determined with advantage/disadvantage. However, this is not one you want to be calling 5 times a year; it's about as rare as the T for faking being fouled.