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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 08:23am
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What's Wrong with this Ball..

I had one of these situations happen yesterday in a middle school tournament game and thought I would bring it to the boards.


A1 is dribbling the ball and the ball starts to bounce lower and lower and before you know it the ball has stopped bouncing and is on the floor not moving.

What do we have if anything on these two scenarios?

1. A1 with an open palm starts hitting the ball and the ball starts bouncing again.

2. A1 with a closed fist starts hitting the ball and the ball starts bouncing again.
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 08:30am
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Quote:

1. A1 with an open palm starts hitting the ball and the ball starts bouncing again.
In my rules, (FIBA) to put the ball on the floor, let go of it, and then start hitting it again is a double dribble. But thats my interpretation
Quote:
2. A1 with a closed fist starts hitting the ball and the ball starts bouncing again.
Here, I believe I have an answer for you, if the FIBA rules are the same as your rules...

13.2 Rule
A player shall not run with the ball, deliberately kick or block it with any part of the
leg or strike it with the fist.
However, to accidentally come into contact with or touch the ball with any part of
the leg is not a violation.
An infraction of Art. 13.2 is a violation.

In particular, note the strike with fist bit... just my two cents.

Cleefy
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 08:44am
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I am curious why the ball quit bouncing. Was it the ball deflating or the players lack of dribbling? If the ball is the problem, I would stop play and check the ball. If it is the player; if the ball had stopped moving, I would consider either of those efforts an illegal dribble. But specific to your second question, hitting the ball with a closed hand does not necessarily constitute a violation of the rule regarding hitting the ball with fist.
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 08:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleefy View Post
In my rules, (FIBA) to put the ball on the floor, let go of it, and then start hitting it again is a double dribble. But thats my interpretation.
Why should the OP's example be a double dribble? The dribble did not end.

24.1.1 A dribble ends when the player touches the ball with both hands simultaneously or permits the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.

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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 08:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splute View Post
I am curious why the ball quit bouncing. Was it the ball deflating or the players lack of dribbling? If the ball is the problem, I would stop play and check the ball. If it is the player; if the ball had stopped moving, I would consider either of those efforts an illegal dribble. But specific to your second question, hitting the ball with a closed hand does not necessarily constitute a violation of the rule regarding hitting the ball with fist.
The ball was fine...the player lost control of the dribble and the ball naturally started bouncing lower and lower. He tried to keep the dribble going but it died on him.

I'm curious about the statement, can you elaborate?

"...hitting the ball with a closed hand does not necessarily constitute a violation of the rule regarding hitting the ball with fist."
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 09:04am
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Misleading Title?

DA - I guess nothing was wrong with the ball and you knew that. But if it was.....

Rule 1, Section 12, Ball ART. 1 . . . The ball shall meet the following specifications:

ART. 2 . . . The ball shall be inflated to an air pressure such that when it is dropped to the playing surface from a height of 6 feet, measured to the bottom of the ball, it shall rebound to a height, measured to the top of the ball, of not less than 49 inches when it strikes on its least resilient spot, nor more than 54 inches when it strikes on its most resilient spot.

ART. 3 . . . The home team shall provide a ball which meets the specifications. The referee shall be the sole judge of the legality of the ball and may select a ball provided by the visiting team.

I would agree with SPLUTE in this case. Blow it dead. Check it and replace it if needed at POI and no penalty. My $.02
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 09:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Official View Post
The ball was fine...the player lost control of the dribble and the ball naturally started bouncing lower and lower. He tried to keep the dribble going but it died on him.

I'm curious about the statement, can you elaborate?

"...hitting the ball with a closed hand does not necessarily constitute a violation of the rule regarding hitting the ball with fist."
We are allowed to start a dribble by pushing, throwing or batting the ball to the floor. A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats ( intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)).... I do not see where the "stike" has to be with an open hand. Therefore I believe a player is allowed to use the bottom of a closed hand or even the back of the hand to dribble. I believe rule 9-4 relates to intentionally hitting the ball with the fist, as in a punch motion.
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 09:30am
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It is possible for the ball to go bad during the game...it would depend on the age of the ball or if it was made correctly, etc. I've seen footballs go bad during a game, as well as soccer balls. Even soccer balls inflated to the right pressure can explode when they hit the metal parts of the goal if they're covertly defective. It's very possible, but very rare at the same time.
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 09:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Official View Post
The ball was fine...the player lost control of the dribble and the ball naturally started bouncing lower and lower. He tried to keep the dribble going but it died on him.
Based on what you clarified here, I would say he was attempting to continue his dribble until it "died" on him. I am guessing at this point he picked up the ball. I would not have called any violation for illegal dribble in this case.
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 10:07am
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There is no reason for an illegal dribble. His dribble never ended.

Striking the ball with a fist; technically it fits the letter of the rule.
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 10:08am
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Originally Posted by Splute View Post
We are allowed to start a dribble by pushing, throwing or batting the ball to the floor. A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats ( intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)).... I do not see where the "stike" has to be with an open hand. Therefore I believe a player is allowed to use the bottom of a closed hand or even the back of the hand to dribble. I believe rule 9-4 relates to intentionally hitting the ball with the fist, as in a punch motion.
I've read Rule 4-15-1 about dribbling, but doesn't Rule 9-4 make it clear that a player cannot hit the ball with a fist?

Rule 4-15-1 states “A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times.

Rule 9-4 states “A player shall not travel with the ball, intentionally kick it, strike it with the fist or cause it to enter and pass through the basket from below.
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 10:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splute View Post
We are allowed to start a dribble by pushing, throwing or batting the ball to the floor. A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats ( intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)).... I do not see where the "stike" has to be with an open hand. Therefore I believe a player is allowed to use the bottom of a closed hand or even the back of the hand to dribble. I believe rule 9-4 relates to intentionally hitting the ball with the fist, as in a punch motion.
If there are other players around when A1 tries to reconstitute his dribble, I'd call it. The OP has him hitting it with his fist, intentionally. I'm not sure how you think this doesn't qualify. If fits, but is generally only applied when safety is an issue.
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 10:13am
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BTW, if I was the defensive coach in this scenario, I'd be pissed...

...that my players didn't pick it up before it stopped bouncing.
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 12:59pm
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Wink

When I started officiating, we had a lot of trouble with the basketballs. Sometimes the laces would start to unravel, and sometimes the ball would bet a big gash in it from striking the lip of the peach basket.

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Last edited by Mark Padgett; Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 01:01pm.
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Old Fri Feb 27, 2009, 01:05pm
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Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
When I started officiating, we had a lot of trouble with the basketballs. Sometimes the laces would start to unravel, and sometimes the ball would bet a big gash in it from striking the lip of the peach basket.

I believe you to...
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