First time leaving a gym while looking over my shoulder

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

6th grade travel league "NIT" playoffs (bracket for all the teams that didn't make the 16-team championship tournament. Quarterfinal, a couple of 6-10 teams, evenly matched. Close game all the way, visitors lead whole time but by no more than 6 or 8 at any point. Now down to 15 seconds left, home down by just one after a missed free throw. I'm new trail, and at midcourt visitor player decides to foul. Not sure if that was called from the bench or what--they only had 3 or 4 team fouls so it was a smart idea to give a couple. However, instead of just committing a foul, he grabs jersey and pulls. It stretches a good foot away from the player. I call the intentional foul and visitor coach is angry. I get away administering FTs before he goes too far. Home makes 1 of 2, scores on the ensuing possession, and visitors miss a desperation shot at horn.

Visitor coach charges out at me to scream at me about how it was the worst call he has ever seen, and that I was against his team the whole game. My partner intervenes and I move to the side (nowhere to go, I've gotta get my jacket and keys over by the score table). Meanwhile a player is kicking the bench and a parent is out of the bleachers yelling at me. I have to turn a little so I can keep one eye on him. Finally my partner is done trying to calm down the coach, and we get our stuff and go. The dad who was yelling walks down toward the same door as us but I give him a stare and he stops.

Called the assignor after and found out they've had quite a few problems with the coach.

Then I just got through two men's rec games this afternoon without a T. My partner got one, but he was sick and had a fuse even shorter than usual.

[UNH IM Ref]

I'm glad I haven't had my first nightmare game...

[jeschmit]

I've been there before. I was at the Intramural National Championships at NC State last year. Women's semifinal game. Goes into OT. I make two PC fouls on the same team on two consecutive possessions and the coach goes nuts. His team ended up losing the game by two, and he had it in for me and my partners. We had to leave the gym out of a side door and be escorted to the women's locker room as he was chasing us down the entire way. For the remainder of the tournament I had to have an escort with me in case the coach (who stuck around to watch the championship game) would come up and start something with me. He didn't have too many nice things to say to me while he sat in the stands and I reffed the championship game...

[BktBallRef]

Can anyone tell me why don't coaches teach their players how to strategically foul in the final minutes? Do teams still practice everyday after school?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Can anyone tell me why don't coaches teach their players how to strategically foul in the final minutes? Do teams still practice everyday after school?

Great question. As a former coach, I think sometimes as the kids get older, coaches assumed they knew/have been taught the basics and they move on to intricate things.

For example when I coached 15U I would watch kids at the first practice and see how they shot foul shots, made bounce passes, chest passes, played defense, dribbled, etc. and would work with them on fundamentals. Many other coaches would immediately work on their 15 different sets of offenses and defenses and over-complicate things. You must understand the basics first.

These same coaches may not teach strategy and what to do in certain situations as they again assume players know what to do when they yell - "FOUL HIM!" It starts at the beginning. JMO

[Jmuvol]

jeschmit, first let me congratulate you on getting to the national championships. I have worked for a long time in collegiate rec and still do. Knowing how most of the group in here feel about coaches on an "organized" level, let me remind you that Intramural "coaches" are less than worthless. They are someone on the teams boyfriend who has played so they "know" the rules. If they dress up with a shirt and tie, look out!

My run for the hills story goes back about 12 years to when I was in grad school in Virginia. Working an AAU 11 & Under state semi game. One team was sponsored by a Baptist church. We had to be escorted out of the gym when it was all said and done. Game management asked the pastor to leave with about 3 minutes to go in the game. The three of us decided we were going to that church the next day. We wanted to sit in the back, boo and yell at the pastor during his surmon...

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Can anyone tell me why don't coaches teach their players how to strategically foul in the final minutes? Do teams still practice everyday after school?

I was at an 8th grade girls game recently where the opposing team decided to foul at the end of the game and the coach was yelling out "grab their jersey!" This was after one of his girls got called for an intention foul for grabbing one of our girls from behind by her pony tail.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

I was at an 8th grade girls game recently where the opposing team decided to foul at the end of the game and the coach was yelling out "grab their jersey!" This was after one of his girls got called for an intention foul for grabbing one of our girls from behind by her pony tail.

Hard to coach it when you don't know it.

[BillyMac]

Back when I was a middle school coach, we would take an hour every season to go over late game situations. I would put one minute on the scoreboard clock, and a score, usually somewhere between a one point and a five point difference. We would talk about, and practice, how we would approach this situation if it ever happened in a real game. When ahead, we had a play called "15 Layup", where my players were only allowed to take a wide open layup, no other kind of shot. If, for whatever reason, a player chose to take some other type of shot, even if the ball went in, the rest of the team ran, while the offender was encouraged to get a drink of water. When behind, we practiced unintentional intentional fouls. Back then, if coaches yelled, "Foul", officials would call an intentional foul, so we had a play called, "Steal the ball", which was really code for "Foul". We practiced how to foul in these situations, don't grab a jersey, or push from behind, or bear hug the offensive player. Instead slap at the offensive player's forearm, with an exaggerated upward, and downward, motion, making sure to make some skin to skin contact, even better if the slap resulted in a slapping sound.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Can anyone tell me why don't coaches teach their players how to strategically foul in the final minutes? Do teams still practice everyday after school?

Good point. It's part of the complete coaching job to be ready for these situations. When I coached, we covered all situations at the end of a game.

Just from a coaching standpoint, we won a game by fouling (made sure we were going for the ball) when we had a 3 point lead and less than 10 seconds left. Only could get 2 at the line. Wonder why more coaches don't do that.

Reffing a V tournament game last year: I had one where the player was dribbling up court and the opponent from behind grabbed the shoulder of the A player. The coach couldn't understand why it was an intentional foul.

In the OP, it was intentional unless the ball was hidden under the jersey (going for the ball).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Forksref

Unless the ball was hidden under the jersey.

Nice to see another Harlem Globetrotter fan out there. Now, if the Harlem Globetrotters are playing on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier, as they have done in real life, and they are slowly bringing up the ball against a Washington Generals full court press, and the official is up to a count of nine on a ten second count, and the aircraft carrier crosses the International Date Line from East to West, at 2:00 a.m., on the second Sunday in March, when we switch to Daylight Saving Time, does the ten second count continue?

[ODJ]

When I know the situation is coming, and I have the opportunity, I ask the coach.
Not enough of us (and I'm guilty too) don't call the first purpose foul which leads the players to go for the harder foul and the cries of intentional.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ODJ

Not enough of us don't call the first purpose foul which leads the players to go for the harder foul and the cries of intentional.

Sounds like we're on the same wavelength. From my pregame:

Near the end of the game, if the winning team is just holding the ball and is willing to take the free throws after strategic fouls, then let’s call the foul immediately, so the ballhandler doesn't get hit harder to draw a whistle. Let’s make sure there is a play on the ball by the defense. If there’s no play on the ball, if the defense grabs the jersey, or pushes from behind, or bear hugs the offensive player, we should consider an intentional foul. These are not basketball plays and should be penalized as intentional.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nice to see another Harlem Globetrotter fan out there. Now, if the Harlem Globetrotters are playing on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier, as they have done in real life, and they are slowly bringing up the ball against a Washington Generals full court press, and the official is up to a count of nine on a ten second count, and the aircraft carrier crosses the International Date Line from East to West, at 2:00 a.m., on the second Sunday in March, when we switch to Daylight Saving Time, does the ten second count continue?

Please don't tell me you're a math teacher! You sound like my math professor from hell during my college days!

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

6th grade travel league "NIT" playoffs (bracket for all the teams that didn't make the 16-team championship tournament. Quarterfinal, a couple of 6-10 teams, evenly matched. Close game all the way, visitors lead whole time but by no more than 6 or 8 at any point. Now down to 15 seconds left, home down by just one after a missed free throw. I'm new trail, and at midcourt visitor player decides to foul. Not sure if that was called from the bench or what--they only had 3 or 4 team fouls so it was a smart idea to give a couple. However, instead of just committing a foul, he grabs jersey and pulls. It stretches a good foot away from the player. I call the intentional foul and visitor coach is angry. I get away administering FTs before he goes too far. Home makes 1 of 2, scores on the ensuing possession, and visitors miss a desperation shot at horn.

Visitor coach charges out at me to scream at me about how it was the worst call he has ever seen, and that I was against his team the whole game. My partner intervenes and I move to the side (nowhere to go, I've gotta get my jacket and keys over by the score table). Meanwhile a player is kicking the bench and a parent is out of the bleachers yelling at me. I have to turn a little so I can keep one eye on him. Finally my partner is done trying to calm down the coach, and we get our stuff and go. The dad who was yelling walks down toward the same door as us but I give him a stare and he stops.

Called the assignor after and found out they've had quite a few problems with the coach.

Then I just got through two men's rec games this afternoon without a T. My partner got one, but he was sick and had a fuse even shorter than usual.

A Pennsylvania Coach, thank you, thank you, thank you for following the rules and calling the Intentional Foul. Too many officials (not on this site, of course) decide to not follow the rules and are afraid to call the intentional. Some don't understand that when they don't call it and I come in and call it the coaches, players, and fans (right, who cares) are often surprised and don't know what the player did was an intentional by rule. Let's continue to call those and maybe eventually by 2020 everyone catches on...