Striking with fist

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

This violation, along with 10 seconds to shoot an FT, are two I've never seen called in my life. Anyway, last night, Men's Wreck League, point guard gets an inbound pass in his backcourt, all by himself, dribbles once, and the second dribble is whack-a-mole style, downward strike with the bottom of his fist, mad about something I guess. He continues his dribble and I call nothing, because it is rec league.

It got me to thinking about this, however. I was trying to decide if I would call it in a HS game. I mean, of course I'd call it at any level if any other player was near the fist-in-motion. But do I get this if the same situation as described above happens in a HS JV or V game?

I asked my partner but I don't know how much faith to put in his response. He said he wouldn't call it, but he doesn't call much apparently. Between games one of the guys who knew him was telling him a story about a T he got recently. His guy was getting "hammered in there" and he went to the official who was putting his whistle in his mouth, so he said, "if you are going to put your whistle in your mouth, blow it!" and got pinned. I said I'd T him too and my partner said "for what?" as he laughed.

[deecee]

If it were to happen as you stated I would have a chat with that player and tell him not to do it again (then again I havent seen a player do it the way you described). I called this once but it was off a rebound. Player used his fist to clear the ball. If he played soccer it would have been a beautiful save.

[Bad Zebra]

This topic comes up a couple times a year. I called it once in a B-V game. Defensive player punched a long rebound upcourt to a teammate on a fast break. I hit the whistle out of instinct. The whole gyn looked puzzled. I explained it to the coach next time I was near him. He thanked me and mentioned that they had done that several times that season an no one ever called them on it.

Incidentally, the player that punched the ball is now playing on a D1 scholarship.

[PSidbury]

Originally Posted by deecee

If he played soccer it would have been a...

...pass.

But, this was JV-Boys basketball and the receiving player of a rolled pass decided to let it make contact with his foot so he could toe-flick it up into his hands.

Uh... no.

Paul

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

He thanked me and mentioned that they had done that several times that season an no one ever called them on it.

Which goes to show you that even THIS old excuse can be true once in a blue moon!

[ajs8207]

What's the proper mechanic for calling this?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by ajs8207

What's the proper mechanic for calling this?

A bicycle kick.

Or if you want to go to the pre 2002 mechanic then you would do this...

[Mark Padgett]

Note that there's no rule against a player striking his coach with his fist. I hope they don't change that.

[JugglingReferee]

That isn't Double Dragon, is it?

[TheViper]

Street Fighter .... OHHHH-YOUGETTT

[mick]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

This violation, along with 10 seconds to shoot an FT, are two I've never seen called in my life. Anyway, last night, Men's Wreck League, point guard gets an inbound pass in his backcourt, all by himself, dribbles once, and the second dribble is whack-a-mole style, downward strike with the bottom of his fist, mad about something I guess. He continues his dribble and I call nothing, because it is rec league.

It got me to thinking about this, however. I was trying to decide if I would call it in a HS game. I mean, of course I'd call it at any level if any other player was near the fist-in-motion. But do I get this if the same situation as described above happens in a HS JV or V game?

Rule 9, SECTION 4 TRAVEL, KICK, FIST
A player shall not travel with the ball, as in 4-44, intentionally kick it, as in 4-
29, strike it with the fist or cause it to enter and pass through the basket from
below.

NOTE:

Kicking the ball is a violation only when it is an intentional act; accidentally striking the ball with the foot or leg is not a violation.

PENALTY: The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the
opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the

violation.

PA Coach,
My knee jerk reaction would be to no-call.
The Case Book shows nothing. The Rules By Topic gives no rationale.

So where do we go? If we try to decipher the spirit and intent, what do we find? We see a safety effect or a sporting effect.


The penalty is only loss of ball and it seems that it may fit in the same category as throwing an elbow. The rationale for the elbow movement is to reduce rough play.

• If a player, bringing the ball up the floor (undefended), throws an elbow at nothing, will we take the ball away?

To me the reason for the fist rule is to reduce the potential for players swatting at balls or playing defense (in the vicinity of an opponent) with fists, which could certainly be intimidating and unsporting. The rules will (certainly) not state that a player may not make a fist, but it makes sense that playing the game with open hands is more applicable to the game of basketball.

I agree with you when you adjudge players in the vicinity, although if the lonely dribbler comes up the floor fist dribbling the ball, that player would have my attention; though I wouldn't be looking for the carry, I may see an illegal dribble.

[shishstripes]

I had a situation where the player punched the ball with his fist as well to advance the ball to a teammate. Only time I have ever had to call it. Gave the kick signal and said, "Punching the ball." Players thought it looked funny that I used a kicking motion to call punching.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by shishstripes

I had a situation where the player punched the ball with his fist as well to advance the ball to a teammate. Only time I have ever had to call it. Gave the kick signal and said, "Punching the ball." Players thought it looked funny that I used a kicking motion to call punching.

Why would you use a kick signal?

[shishstripes]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Why would you use a kick signal?

That is what I was taught to use at a camp where we covered violations in the classroom. There is no approved signal for fist and this official's reasoning was that it was grouped with kick, but to specify that it was for punching the ball verbally.

[Zoochy]

I have stated this in a past post on Fisting. I saw a girl do in to begin the game. I know your minds are in the gutter..... but she punched the ball on the opening jump ball.
As mentioned by others, I have seen it called when a player punched the ball during a rebounding action.