Importance of games

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

.... you do not see me condemning people for what they do now do you?

Depends on what you consider to be condemnation.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not wear a uniform to a game much more than weather considerations. It looks stupid to me and looks like anyone can walk off the street and work the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Depends on what you consider to be condemnation.

The bottom line to this, no matter what you say or what I say, it is not going to change what we do. If you want to look like you just walked off the truck, be my guest. At least I know you are not going to change. Just like you should realize no matter how many ways you say it, it is not going to change everyone's approach to games. All games are not equally important and they never will be.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

All games are not equally important and they never will be.

You're right, Rut. All the games I work are important. All the games worked by others are not.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

All games are not equally important and they never will be.

Sometimes things get lost in translation.

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

You're right, Rut. All the games I work are important. All the games worked by others are not.

And sometimes they don't.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The point of the keep it yourself part was simply trying to discourage derogatory remarks, which might result in negative publicity that we as a group don't need. As far as different approaches to officiating different levels, I personally find it a relief to call varsity games after calling youth league games. When I was first approached about officiating, it was at the jr. high level. I expressed doubts about my own ability to do the job and was told, "Just keep them from killing each other." This was said jokingly, but the idea is based in fact. The biggest problem I see at low levels is officials who will not blow the whistle. This can be a rookie plagued by uncertainty, but it could just as easily be a certified official daydreaming about D1 and thinking "this game doesn't matter."

Or it could be an official who calls every bit of contact and knows nothing about advantage/disadvantage and has both teams in the double bonus in the first and third quarters.

[Stat-Man]

For me and my perspective, the lower level games can be an enigma at times.

I love the lower levels because the kids are still young enough that they usually play hard all game long from start to finish and are eager to try to learn the game.

As I was telling our AD after our last game this weekend, It's just frustrating to encounter adults that thing it's all about them and not the kids. Coaches who feel that the rule requiring no starters in with a 30 point lead; officials who show no mechnics, no hustle, or admit they don't know and/or won't enforce the league specific rules; and the parents who think their child will be the next pro superstar even though the kid is 10 year old are enough to make anyone (myself included) ask themselves "Why am I at these games?"

I also realize that what happens in a CYO JV game with players in the 9-10 year old range is small potatoes in the grand scheme of life, the people involved -- coaches, game crew (such as myself), etc. -- should at least try to give a good effort and try to do as good a job as possible and ensure the games are played according to the rules (ideally, not just to the letter, but also in the spirit). Yes, I will admit I am a bit particular about subs coming to the timer/scorer to check in and not just waiting at the far ends of the table, but only because I want to get them in the good habits early.

(/my $0.02)

[dave30]

A high school district game would probably be more important than a 5th grade rec league game as far as having to enforce some rules such as illegal numbers, wrong color jerseys (blue vs red) for example, etc.

As for the calls, there shouldn't be that much difference, except that you are more lenient on travel, double-dribble, etc in a 3rd or 4th grade game compared to high school.

But that being said... to the 5th grade players in a championship game of their rec league.....their game is just as important to them as the state championship game for their local high school.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by dave30

A high school district game would probably be more important than a 5th grade rec league game as far as having to enforce some rules such as illegal numbers, wrong color jerseys (blue vs red) for example, etc.

As for the calls, there shouldn't be that much difference, except that you are more lenient on travel, double-dribble, etc in a 3rd or 4th grade game compared to high school.

I don't think anyone would question this part.

But that being said... to the 5th grade players in a championship game of their rec league.....their game is just as important to them as the state championship game for their local high school.

This is the idea I was hoping to promote, and while I would not presume to censor anyone, I thought perhaps some might think twice before giving replies which cast a negative light on any other poster's game/league, no matter what level is being discussed.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This is the idea I was hoping to promote, and while I would not presume to censor anyone, I thought perhaps some might think twice before giving replies which cast a negative light on any other poster's game/league, no matter what level is being discussed.

Sorry, not going to happen. I guess you will continue to be upset. Because if some parent comes here yelling about how the officials screwed their child’s game as if this was the 7th game of the NBA Finals or the Final Four, you will not get a response that will not show some perspective. It might not even come from me; it will come from many that post here.

Nice try, but it will not work.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sorry, not going to happen. I guess you will continue to be upset. Because if some parent comes here yelling about how the officials screwed their child’s game as if this was the 7th game of the NBA Finals or the Final Four, you will not get a response that will not show some perspective. It might not even come from me; it will come from many that post here.

Nice try, but it will not work.

Peace

It is fine to have perspective:

First time poster: Last night in my 10 year old girl's game the other team repeatedly reached in and went over the back and they didn't call any fouls.

Response: You need to understand the rule on what actually is or is not a foul............etc. Also at this level, it is quite possible that the officials have limited experience.......etc. A game involving players of this age is difficult to compare to high school games or things you see on tv.........etc.

But it's not necessary to smack someone in the face with your perspective:

Response #2: Sir/ma'am, it's obvious you know nothing about the game and combined with the fact that it's just a kids game, which means it had clueless officials, there's really no point in any of us trying to explain anything to you. We have important issues to discuss, like what shoes the D1 guys wear.



Each of us must decide who he wants to be.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It is fine to have perspective:

First time poster: Last night in my 10 year old girl's game the other team repeatedly reached in and went over the back and they didn't call any fouls.

Response: You need to understand the rule on what actually is or is not a foul............etc. Also at this level, it is quite possible that the officials have limited experience.......etc. A game involving players of this age is difficult to compare to high school games or things you see on tv.........etc.

But it's not necessary to smack someone in the face with your perspective:

Response #2: Sir/ma'am, it's obvious you know nothing about the game and combined with the fact that it's just a kids game, which means it had clueless officials, there's really no point in any of us trying to explain anything to you. We have important issues to discuss, like what shoes the D1 guys wear.

Each of us must decide who he wants to be.

Either you do not read many posts or you are reading what you want to read.

I do not read on a regular basis people just coming out and saying, "it is just a kid’s game" without some explanation or trying to help the person out. Usually the people that are not officials come here want only to have their positions validated and do not come here for an honest discussion or a real official's point of view. Considering that this is an official's website, things like shoes and pants and other aspects are going to be "important" to someone.

Just like you cannot dictate how people respond to people that come here and talk about what is or is not important, you cannot tell people what they can talk about either. And you are definitely not telling people how to feel about games at any level. Just like there are people here that do not care about the NBA, but there are others that do. If those conversations bother you, do not read them. To expect everyone is going to treat a kids game, men's league or rec. league the same as a college or high school game is rather silly and unrealistic. It is not going to change because it upsets you.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sorry, not going to happen. I guess you will continue to be upset. Because if some parent comes here yelling about how the officials screwed their child’s game as if this was the 7th game of the NBA Finals or the Final Four, you will not get a response that will not show some perspective. It might not even come from me; it will come from many that post here.

Nice try, but it will not work.

Peace

Werd.

At the end of the day, NONE of us are doing brain surgery. A lot of people at all levels can use a little perspective. It *is* just a game.

If those 5th grade championship games were as important *to me*, I'd be seeking to work them, instead of making a conscious decision to *not* work them. When a parent of a 9 year old comes here and rants, I think they typically get exactly what they deserve.

[cardinalfan]

My older son played at junior college, and my younger son now plays at a D3 school.

I think I have a pretty good perspective of when basketball should be taken a little more seriously.
I tried calling college ball, but my work schedule wouldn't allow it. I prefer high school.

Each year I go down to the local school to watch friends' kids play elementary ball. I leave with a smile on my face after watching parents yell like fools, coaches try strategy they've seen on ESPN, and officials who use atrocious mechanics and don't know the rules.
If some of those officials can use this forum to improve, I say more power to you. Who am I to judge what level you want to call? But let's keep it in perspective, guys!

[cardinalfan]

FWIW, my son informed me last weekend that he signed up to officiate intramural basketball games this spring after his college season is finished. (probably not a good idea, but I appreciate him wanting to make a little extra spending money!). He told me he'd like to get together one day and let me give him and a couple of buddies a few tips to get started.

I told him he would need a whistle with a pea in it, a shirt with a collar, a duffel bag, and to be sure to come to the game already in uniform.

I figure that way he doesn't have anyway to go but up!

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by cardinalfan

I told him he would need a whistle with a pea in it, a shirt with a collar, a duffel bag, and to be sure to come to the game already in uniform.

I figure that way he doesn't have anyway to go but up!

I'm so new that I haven't yet become registered (can't until MHSAA opens the registration period). I get everything else, but why no duffel bag? What do you use instead?