How would you call these situations?

[bas2456]

#1: A1 has possession of the ball, but is on his knees and would be on all fours, but he's got his two hands pinning the ball down on the ground. A1 "stands up" so that now only his knees are on the ground. My partner called traveling, but I wasn't so sure. I went with his call of course and continued. Was my partner correct?

#2: A1 drives baseline side from the corner. When A1 picks up his dribble, he realizes he is too far underneath the basket to go straight up with a shot. B1 has moved in behind A1 and established LGP. B1 has his arms raised not straight up, but closer to straight up than he is 45 degrees. A1 jumps backwards into B1 to attempt a shot. Is there a foul here, or is it a no call?

My guess would be PC if anything.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bas2456

#1: A1 has possession of the ball, but is on his knees and would be on all fours, but he's got his two hands pinning the ball down on the ground. A1 "stands up" so that now only his knees are on the ground. My partner called traveling, but I wasn't so sure. I went with his call of course and continued. Was my partner correct?

Yes. You cannot get up while in control of the ball (without a dribble). I would consider the player in control of the ball

Originally Posted by bas2456

#2: A1 drives baseline side from the corner. When A1 picks up his dribble, he realizes he is too far underneath the basket to go straight up with a shot. B1 has moved in behind A1 and established LGP. B1 has his arms raised not straight up, but closer to straight up than he is 45 degrees. A1 jumps backwards into B1 to attempt a shot. Is there a foul here, or is it a no call?

My guess would be PC if anything.

Likely a foul, but I would have to see it. Technically the defender cannot be in the vertical space of the shooter and any contact would be on the defender. But if the shot was not affected (not likely) and the contact was minimal, then I might call a foul on the defender. Also keep in mind, the shooter cannot jump directly into the defender either, so you might just have a no call. I think this is just one of those HTBT situations.

Peace

[shishstripes]

the player was on his/her knees and straightened up still on their knees? Why would this be any different than laying on your back and sitting up? It's not illegal to touch the ball to the floor. I've got nothing if I am picturing the play correctly.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by bas2456

#1: A1 has possession of the ball, but is on his knees and would be on all fours, but he's got his two hands pinning the ball down on the ground. A1 "stands up" so that now only his knees are on the ground. My partner called traveling, but I wasn't so sure. I went with his call of course and continued. Was my partner correct?

The way I am reading this is that the player lifted the ball from the floor and is kneeling not standing. If I read it correctly then a violation has not yet occurred. After all he has his pivot knees.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by bas2456

#1: A1 has possession of the ball, but is on his knees and would be on all fours, but he's got his two hands pinning the ball down on the ground. A1 "stands up" so that now only his knees are on the ground. My partner called traveling, but I wasn't so sure. I went with his call of course and continued. Was my partner correct?

#2: A1 drives baseline side from the corner. When A1 picks up his dribble, he realizes he is too far underneath the basket to go straight up with a shot. B1 has moved in behind A1 and established LGP. B1 has his arms raised not straight up, but closer to straight up than he is 45 degrees. A1 jumps backwards into B1 to attempt a shot. Is there a foul here, or is it a no call?

My guess would be PC if anything.

1) No.
2) HTBT - but often, nothing.

[bas2456]

What does HTBT stand for?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bas2456

What does HTBT stand for?

had to be there

[bas2456]

Ah ok, thanks. I've seen it a bunch, now I know what it means!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bas2456

#1: A1 has possession of the ball, but is on his knees and would be on all fours, but he's got his two hands pinning the ball down on the ground. A1 "stands up" so that now only his knees are on the ground. My partner called traveling, but I wasn't so sure. I went with his call of course and continued. Was my partner correct?

#2: A1 drives baseline side from the corner. When A1 picks up his dribble, he realizes he is too far underneath the basket to go straight up with a shot. B1 has moved in behind A1 and established LGP. B1 has his arms raised not straight up, but closer to straight up than he is 45 degrees. A1 jumps backwards into B1 to attempt a shot. Is there a foul here, or is it a no call?

My guess would be PC if anything.

1. If a player with two hands on the ball, standing on his/her feet, places the ball to the ground while still holding onto the ball with both hands, and without moving either foot, is it a travel? The answer is no. So then, in situation #1 for the same reason it is not a travel.
2. HTBT. Is he 45° toward A1 or away from A1? If towards, I can see the LGP, but B1's body is 45° to A1. Isn't is possible that B1 violated the principle of verticality? It sounds like a block, or a no-call to me, because 45° is quite a large lean from the vertical. If away, PC or nothing, with a lean to the no-call for anything other than lots of contact.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bas2456

#1: A1 has possession of the ball, but is on his knees and would be on all fours, but he's got his two hands pinning the ball down on the ground. A1 "stands up" so that now only his knees are on the ground. My partner called traveling, but I wasn't so sure. I went with his call of course and continued. Was my partner correct?

I'd have no travel here.

#2: A1 drives baseline side from the corner. When A1 picks up his dribble, he realizes he is too far underneath the basket to go straight up with a shot. B1 has moved in behind A1 and established LGP. B1 has his arms raised not straight up, but closer to straight up than he is 45 degrees. A1 jumps backwards into B1 to attempt a shot. Is there a foul here, or is it a no call?

My guess would be PC if anything.

I'm not getting out my protractor, but I'm not likely to bail out the offense here. No call (if the defense is not disadvantaged) or PC.

[Adam]

I've got nothing in #1 until he tries to actually stand.

On #2, it depends on where the contact is. If jumping into B1 dislodges B1 from his location, it could be a PC. If the contact is mainly on the torso, I'm not bailing him out. If the contact is on the shooting arm and affects the shot, it could be a foul, but it's going to have to be obvious.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm not getting out my protractor.

And I thought that I was the only one who had a needle, an extra whistle, and a protractor, in my warmup jacket pocket.