5 Second Count question

[deecee]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

I believe that the requirement is the defender must be within 6 feet (measuring nearest foot to nearest foot). It does not matter whether the offensive player retreats to get more than 6 feet of space or if the defending retreats to give more than 6 feet of space.

yes that too, but i assumed that could be inferred by what i typed.

And a defender can lose his LGP by a quick move and the defender falls, offense gets his head and shoulders past the defender, defender and offensive player move to the same position and collide at the same time, I would put this contact on the defense all the time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

yes that too, but i assumed that could be inferred by what i typed.

And a defender can lose his LGP by a quick move and the defender falls, offense gets his head and shoulders past the defender, defender and offensive player move to the same position and collide at the same time, I would put this contact on the defense all the time.

If the defender falls, I'm not stopping my count. There is no rule basis for that (unless the dribbler goes past the prone defender).
And where does it say a defender who has fallen has lost his LGP?

[mick]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If the defender falls, I'm not stopping my count. There is no rule basis for that (unless the dribbler goes past the prone defender).
And where does it say a defender who has fallen has lost his LGP?

With the defender on the floor, I could not rationalize continuing the count.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If the defender falls, I'm not stopping my count. There is no rule basis for that (unless the dribbler goes past the prone defender).
And where does it say a defender who has fallen has lost his LGP?

I disagree here. I do think lying prone on the ground is NOT playing defense. No count from me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

I disagree here. I do think lying prone on the ground is NOT playing defense. No count from me.

So a player falls due to balance (a great move, if you want) and immediately gets up. You're starting a new count?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So a player falls due to balance (a great move, if you want) and immediately gets up. You're starting a new count?

Yes I am. LGP ended when the defender fell, once he re-establishes himself I will restart.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Yes I am. LGP ended when the defender fell, once he re-establishes himself I will restart.

Where does it say LGP is required for a 5 second count?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Where does it say LGP is required for a 5 second count?

9.10.1 SITUATION C: Team A has the ball in its own frontcourt. B1 stands within
6 feet and facing A1 while A1 is holding the ball near the division line. RULING:
In five seconds this would be a violation. In the situation outlined, as soon as B1
has assumed a guarding position, both feet on the court, facing the opponent, no
other specific requirement is in effect. The amount of movement or the actual
body position of the player is irrelevant.

So INITIAL LGP is required, but I don't know of anything requiring that LGP be maintained. In fact, this very case book play seems to indicate the opposite. Especially important is the part about the actual body position not being relevant. Yet it isn't clear exactly what that means. One could take it that the defender can fall down, sit down, or even lie down and the closely-guarded count should continue or one could read the play to say that there are two and only two requirements which must be met--both feet on the court and facing the opponent. If either of those requirements ceases, then the count ends.

I'm inclined to read it in the first manner as forcing the defender to keep both feet on the court is clearly silly. The defender has to be allowed to move and even jump.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So a player falls due to balance (a great move, if you want) and immediately gets up. You're starting a new count?

You can argue that if the defender falls to the floor he/she is no longer continuously guarding the ball-handler.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You can argue that if the defender falls to the floor he/she is no longer continuously guarding the ball-handler.

You could argue that, and I would go with it if he stays there. If he makes an immediate, continuous attempt to get up, he's playing defense the whole time.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You could argue that, and I would go with it if he stays there. If he makes an immediate, continuous attempt to get up, he's playing defense the whole time.

And you are welcome to view it that way. But once the defender falls, he lost LGP. Why should I penalize the offensive player for his higher level of skill?