The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2001, 03:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 306
This sitution brought out a lot of discussion at our board meeting the other night so I thought I'd run it by this crew. This happened in a game one of our officials had and they weren't sure they got it right. A1 releases the ball on try. While the ball is in flight and outside the cylinder, A2 grabs and hangs on the rim (why, we don't know?!?!). Official immediately blows his whistle and bangs A2 with a technical foul. Ball subsequently enters the basket. Official waves off the basket. Question is since the ball was out of A1's hands and clearly in flight, should the basket have counted? I believe the technical foul does not immediately kill the play and, therefore, because the ball was out of A1's hand and clearly in flight, the goal should have counted. However, some other officials on our board felt that the technical foul immediately killed the play. The closest case book play I could find is 10.3.8D.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2001, 04:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 116
Without a rule book, I will wing it.

The hanging on the rim would be a T, and also Goal Tending.... If a player is fouled during a shot, and the ball is hit away while in the cylinder, then the shot would count. I don't see why this would be different.

(I do know the difference is a common personal and unsportsman like technical is the difference.)

If A1 shoots the ball and on his way done, B1 punches him in his stomach, and the ball went in, would the goal count?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2001, 04:21pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Post

I think you got the correct case. The point of the case is not that the technical was called for elbows, but that a technical was called on the shooting team while the ball was in flight and the goal counts.

Look at NF rule 6.7.5 exception 1. It states the ball becomes dead on the whistle except if the whistle occurs while a try or tap is in flight.

Although there seems to be conflicting rules (4.6.1 and 10.3.5) regarding touching the ring (intentionally) while the ball is in or above the cylinder as to whether it is BI or a T, I believe the T takes precedence. The conflict may be moot in your case, because you seem to indicate the ball was in flight, but not necessarily over the cylinder when A2 grabbed the ring.

[Edited by Mark Padgett on Feb 5th, 2001 at 03:24 PM]
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2001, 04:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,051
To me, this does not seem to fit the definition of goal tending or BI, so I would let the bucket count.

Chalk this up as bizarre!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2001, 05:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 378
I agree. The ball itself was not touched--so no goaltending--and the ball was not ON the ring when the player grabbed the rim--so no basket interference. Would not have mattered if the ball was within the imaginary cylinder above the ring, as long as the player didn't touch the ball. So, count the basket and assess the "T".
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2001, 05:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,614
No, the T does not kill the shot but where was the ball when A2 let go of the rim? If he was still holding onto the rim and the ball entered the basket, we have BI.

Quote:
Originally posted by Rookie
The hanging on the rim would be a T, and also Goal Tending....
Goaltending is when the ball is touched on it's downwward flight and is not in the imaginery cylinder. This isn't GT.

Quote:
If a player is fouled during a shot, and the ball is hit away while in the cylinder, then the shot would count. I don't see why this would be different.
The ball isn't touched.

Quote:
If A1 shoots the ball and on his way done, B1 punches him in his stomach, and the ball went in, would the goal count?
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it still make a noise?

Different Play
A1 is in the act of shooting but the ball is not yet in flight when (a) A2 fouls B2, or (b) B2 fouls A2. The shot goes in. Does the basket count in (a) or (b)?
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2001, 11:01pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,845
Walter is correct that NFHS Casebook Play 10.3.8D is the play that covers this situation. The key as to whether A1's try for goal will be scored is whether A2 was still touching the rim when the ball went through the basket. If A2 was touching the rim when the ball went through the rim A2 is also of guilty of offensive basket interference and the goal does not count. If A2 was not touching the basket the goal does count. But you still have a technical foul on A2 for grabbing the rim.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2001, 11:04pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,845
Quote:
Different Play
A1 is in the act of shooting but the ball is not yet in flight when (a) A2 fouls B2, or (b) B2 fouls A2. The shot goes in. Does the basket count in (a) or (b)?
In Play (a) the ball is dead immediately. In Play (b) the ball does not become dead until the shot is made or missed, and will count if it goes through the basket.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 06, 2001, 12:13am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 271
See 6-7-5 and ex 1-3 and the note
If A's try is released then the graping by A2 occurs
count the basket and award the T. (EX 1)

If A's is in the act of shooting but not released
before the grasping ball is dead immediately and no shot
as this is a foul by the offense (ex 3)

If the ball is over the rim when the grasping occurs
BI cancel the basket and award the T (see note and 10.5.3b casebook)



Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 06, 2001, 12:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,614
Quote:
Originally posted by PAULK1
If the ball is over the rim when the grasping occurs
BI cancel the basket and award the T (see note and 10.3.5b casebook)
Are you sure about that Paul?
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 06, 2001, 01:10am
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 171
Send a message via AIM to Bradley Batt
Quote:
If the ball is over the rim when the grasping occurs BI cancel the basket and award the T (see note and 10.3.5b casebook)
Paul - I think that you are misreading the case (there are two scenarios - a and b).

You can only have basket interference if a player touches the ball while it is in the cylinder OR if a player touches the rim while the ball is ON the rim.

That's it. You cannot have BI for the ball being within the cylinder and the player touching the rim (no matter what coaches and fans say!)

Ruling: Assess the technical. If the ball goes in, it counts.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 06, 2001, 01:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,614
Quote:
Originally posted by Bradley Batt
Quote:
If the ball is over the rim when the grasping occurs BI cancel the basket and award the T (see note and 10.3.5b casebook)
Paul - I think that you are misreading the case (there are two scenarios - a and b).

You can only have basket interference if a player touches the ball while it is in the cylinder OR if a player touches the rim while the ball is ON the rim.

That's it. You cannot have BI for the ball being within the cylinder and the player touching the rim (no matter what coaches and fans say!)

Ruling: Assess the technical. If the ball goes in, it counts.
My point exactly! It's an important point to remember, too. When you're in the heat of the game, the ball's in the imaginary cylinder, a player jumps up and touches the rim and you blow the whistle, you've just screwed the pooch!
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1