Chastised for double T on Coach

[Bishopcolle]

1st T: on a 1/1 FT, he is standing behind me (lead, administering) whispers "Idiot." WHACK!.....As I am reporting, and returning to administer T FTs, he asks "What's that for?" I tell him, "I heard the idiot comment, Coach." He immediately jumps back with "You need to learn how to officiate. You're the worst ref I've ever seen!" So I whacked him again, and tossed him. First T's of the year. After faxing in my report, and making a verbal telcal, the next day the State High School office advises that I need to slow down on the second T, and get some distance (which I agree with and try to do) and that I need to swallow my whistle and have a deaf ear (which I don't buy, but I can support their position and philosophy, if so mandated.) I just don't see that the NFHS rules supports that the Coach gets a "free shot" at me once he has earned the first T. Short of the F-Bomb, leave him alone, I was told. Again, I agree you need to give him some room and distance, and time, but I felt his comments were too unsportsmanlike, and in front of the kids. How wrong was I?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

"You're the worst ref!"

"That's impossible. Do you know what the odds are against the worst ref and the worst coach working the same game?"

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

"That's impossible. Do you know what the odds are against the worst ref and the worst coach working the same game?"

I am NOT quick enough....If I had thought of that, he wouldn't have gotten the 2nd T!

[referee99]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

the next day the State High School office advises that I need to slow down on the second T, and get some distance (which I agree with and try to do) and that I need to:

swallow my whistle
have a deaf ear (which I don't buy, but I can support their position and philosophy, if so mandated.) I just don't see that the NFHS rules supports that the Coach gets a "free shot" at me once he has earned the first T. Short of the F-Bomb, leave him alone, I was told.

... was the old joke:

REWARD

LOST DOG

Has 3 legs

Blind in left eye

Missing right ear

Tail broken

Accidentally neutered…

Answers to the name “Lucky”.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

1st T: on a 1/1 FT, he is standing behind me (lead, administering) whispers "Idiot." WHACK!.....As I am reporting, and returning to administer T FTs, he asks "What's that for?" I tell him, "I heard the idiot comment, Coach." He immediately jumps back with "You need to learn how to officiate. You're the worst ref I've ever seen!" So I whacked him again, and tossed him. First T's of the year. After faxing in my report, and making a verbal telcal, the next day the State High School office advises that I need to slow down on the second T, and get some distance (which I agree with and try to do) and that I need to swallow my whistle and have a deaf ear (which I don't buy, but I can support their position and philosophy, if so mandated.) I just don't see that the NFHS rules supports that the Coach gets a "free shot" at me once he has earned the first T. Short of the F-Bomb, leave him alone, I was told. Again, I agree you need to give him some room and distance, and time, but I felt his comments were too unsportsmanlike, and in front of the kids. How wrong was I?

Whoever the person was from your state office that told you that needs a good, swift kick in the nuts.


You did great! The coach misbehaved and you properly penalized it. If it happens again, handle it the same way and to hell with that spineless, coach-loving wimp in your state office.

You can take the court with me anytime.

[BillyMac]

As a former middle school coach, I have thicker skin than most officials. I've only given out two, or three, technicals to head coaches in the past four, or five, years, but the actions of this coach in my game would have earned him a seat in the locker room. The second technical would have happened as fast of the speed of sound, the time it took for his statement to reach my ears, plus the time it took the sound of the whistle to reach the table. The slowest part of this entire sequence would have been if I had happened to be inhaling, instead of exhaling, when I wanted to put air in the whistle.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

1st T: on a 1/1 FT, he is standing behind me (lead, administering) whispers "Idiot." WHACK!.....As I am reporting, and returning to administer T FTs, he asks "What's that for?" I tell him, "I heard the idiot comment, Coach." He immediately jumps back with "You need to learn how to officiate. You're the worst ref I've ever seen!" So I whacked him again, and tossed him. First T's of the year. After faxing in my report, and making a verbal telcal, the next day the State High School office advises that I need to slow down on the second T, and get some distance (which I agree with and try to do) and that I need to swallow my whistle and have a deaf ear (which I don't buy, but I can support their position and philosophy, if so mandated.) I just don't see that the NFHS rules supports that the Coach gets a "free shot" at me once he has earned the first T. Short of the F-Bomb, leave him alone, I was told. Again, I agree you need to give him some room and distance, and time, but I felt his comments were too unsportsmanlike, and in front of the kids. How wrong was I?

I would tell the state office thanks for their advice and never report anything to them again.

You did good, although I'm trying to understand how he could be behind you when you're the lead administering.

BTW, when the coach said that to you, as your partner I would've been ejecting him right with you so that when we filed the report we could say that each official gave one of the technical fouls. There is this incredibly stupid notion that the caller of the first T should disappear and not call a second warranted T, which I find stupid at face value, but there's always ways around people like this. (I've only ejected 2 coaches in 22 years, both subvarsity, both of them before 1995, but I've made a lot of baseball coaches disappear.)

[Bishopcolle]

RichMSN said....."You did good, although I'm trying to understand how he could be behind you when you're the lead administering."

He wasn't behind me (on the endline), but on the sideline, just outside of his box...I come quite a ways off the free throw lane to get a view after bouncing the shooter the ball....he was feet behind me there.

And thanks to all for your thoughts.....again, I try to get distance but this time it didn't work....thanks, again....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

There is this incredibly stupid notion that the caller of the first T should disappear and not call a second warranted T, which I find stupid at face value, but there's always ways around people like this.

A-freaking-men!

You penalize the act. If the act deserves a technical foul, just call the damn thing without calling in Dr. Phil to give you some advice. It's just another call anyway.

Part of our job is having to deal with these situations when they arise. Deal with them in the way that you think best suits the the situation. If that means issuing a "T", so be it.

[BktBallRef]

I have no problem with the second T.

I'm not so sure I would have called the first one.

Also, why did you go back to L after the first T?

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I have no problem with the second T.

I'm not so sure I would have called the first one.

Also, why did you go back to L after the first T?

I headed back to administer the T's....My partner should have been enroute to "seatbelt" the coach, but wasn't...I should probably have stayed deaf and let him hit him with the 2nd T.

Why not the first T? You think he gets a pass for calling me an idiot in front of his bench?

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

1st T: on a 1/1 FT, he is standing behind me (lead, administering) whispers "Idiot." WHACK!.....As I am reporting, and returning to administer T FTs, he asks "What's that for?" I tell him, "I heard the idiot comment, Coach." He immediately jumps back with "You need to learn how to officiate. You're the worst ref I've ever seen!" So I whacked him again, and tossed him. First T's of the year. After faxing in my report, and making a verbal telcal, the next day the State High School office advises that I need to slow down on the second T, and get some distance (which I agree with and try to do) and that I need to swallow my whistle and have a deaf ear (which I don't buy, but I can support their position and philosophy, if so mandated.) I just don't see that the NFHS rules supports that the Coach gets a "free shot" at me once he has earned the first T. Short of the F-Bomb, leave him alone, I was told. Again, I agree you need to give him some room and distance, and time, but I felt his comments were too unsportsmanlike, and in front of the kids. How wrong was I?

Bishop,
You indicated that these were your first T's of the year. Have you ever ejected anyone before (requiring you to complete the paperwork and fax it in)? If the answer is no, I am guessing that you may have gotten the "form letter" that they send all "newer" officials who call both T's on a coach resulting in an ejection. If the answer is that you have several ejections to your credit over the years -- IGNORE the rest of this post!!!

The ideal situation is each T is called by a different official -- this makes the discussion go more smoothly for the association. After all, it wasn't just ONE official who had a problem with the coach, it was TWO.

For the general case, call the T and get away from the coach. OK, makes sense. For the general case, your partner(s) should have your back side covered. OK, fair enough.

I sense that is why you got the response that you did. Had a more experienced official (read as official who has been around for a long time and has handled a number of ejections over the years) made the report that you did, I sense they would have gotten a different response.

We can learn from every situation. Many of your fellow officials have jumped behind your decision in this case. Take that support to heart. After you have several more write-ups to your credit, the association will likely act differently to this type of ejection.

I, like BillyMac, have a thick skin when it comes to coaches comments. At the same time, "idiot!" Not likely to get away with that one. Yikes. "Worst referee I have ever seen." Well, that one I might have just chuckled at hearing (many -- sorry I used this word again, Jurassic, but I think it fits here -- folks have a habit of significantly overusing best/worst/cutest/ugliest and other "est" words). On the other hand, I don't have a problem with you sending him packing for the comment.

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Bishop,
You indicated that these were your first T's of the year. Have you ever ejected anyone before (requiring you to complete the paperwork and fax it in)? If the answer is no, I am guessing that you may have gotten the "form letter" that they send all "newer" officials who call both T's on a coach resulting in an ejection. If the answer is that you have several ejections to your credit over the years -- IGNORE the rest of this post!!!

The ideal situation is each T is called by a different official -- this makes the discussion go more smoothly for the association. After all, it wasn't just ONE official who had a problem with the coach, it was TWO.

For the general case, call the T and get away from the coach. OK, makes sense. For the general case, your partner(s) should have your back side covered. OK, fair enough.

I sense that is why you got the response that you did. Had a more experienced official (read as official who has been around for a long time and has handled a number of ejections over the years) made the report that you did, I sense they would have gotten a different response.

We can learn from every situation. Many of your fellow officials have jumped behind your decision in this case. Take that support to heart. After you have several more write-ups to your credit, the association will likely act differently to this type of ejection.

I, like BillyMac, have a thick skin when it comes to coaches comments. At the same time, "idiot!" Not likely to get away with that one. Yikes. "Worst referee I have ever seen." Well, that one I might have just chuckled at hearing (many folks have a habit of significantly overusing best/worst/cutest/ugliest and other "est" words). On the other hand, I don't have a problem with you sending him packing for the comment.

The state requires the form after every ejection....I have ref'd a long time (and may indeed be the WORST official this Coach has ever seen....can't actually dispute that!) So I am experienced in ejections and T's...just not this year....again, I support the State's philosophy and will try to enforce it....but within reason....thanks for the support and responses....

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

(I've only ejected 2 coaches in 22 years, both subvarsity, both of them before 1995, but I've made a lot of baseball coaches disappear.)

Do you get a lot of baseball coaches at your basketball games?

[Texas Aggie]

leave him alone, I was told

No problem, but you need that in writing and signed by the individual writing it.

I turned in a game report last year on a coach who we didn't T up. Oh, he deserved one or maybe even two but even he didn't rise to the point of conduct you describe here. We decided not to T him because we feared his team would retaliate physically (they were getting smoked) during a live ball and spark a fight. That wasn't a good decision on our part and I regret it, but the message we got back was if we weren't prepared to do our job, what can they do? When you think about it, its a good question.

Bottom line: your guy's a moron. But I would definitely make the effort to get a letter stating what he or she said.