How do you measure closely guarded?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by ranjo

Got to work a great GV game last night. Two good teams with good coaching playing there hearts out until the end of the game.

The only down side of the game for me was a semi-confrontation with the visiting coach regarding closely guarded distances.

It happened this way: 4th quarter and visiting team slowly getting back into the game after trailing most of it. Home team guard is dribbling in her front court and trying to run time off the clock. Defender gets within six feet of dribbler and I start a five second count, about the count of four, the dribbler backs away from the defender about two steps, and I signal not closely guarded. Defender moves back in toward the dribbler and I start a second count, dribbler moves away from defender and again I signal not closely guarded. This scenario happens four times, then a quick pass and home team scores.

Visitors call a time out and the head coach asks for a word with me. I accommodate him and he is a little irate because in his opinion, even when the dribbler backed out, his defender was still within the six foot closely guarded distance. I try to assure him I am judging the distance from the players feet, and not their arms, but he's not buying it. Partner comes over and seeing it is going to be a no-win discussion, says "coach we will watch it a little closer the next time" and that ends the conversation.

I admit my six feet to start a count might be closer to five or five and a half feet at times depending on whether the defender is actively guarding her opponent, or just standing there. I have no problems with the coach bringing it to my attention because it made me think that he might have a valid point.

Have any of you ever had a coach ask you this question? How do you a judge six feet on the floor.

It's a good thing for a coach to bring up because an offensive violation means B gets possession - without the need to foul, possibly giving A dead-ball points. I think you did right by talking to the coach, since you didn't mention he didn't ask in a mean manner.

I also hate it when my P comes over and gets in my conversation. I wish Ps would bugger off. I can handle myself.

I do agree with the way that your P ended the conversation, though. "Coach, I understand your strategy - I'll continue to watch those situations closely."

As for how to judge 6 feet? During an association meeting, ask to see a gym; get out your 38 foot piece of rope, and make a circle with it. Have someone stand in the middle. There's your 6 foot distance.

[Nevadaref]

Yes, the closely-guarded rule was clarified last year to read forward foot to forward foot in the definition (4-10).

I have been given some tips on how to use the markings on the floor to help judge that six-foot distance during play.

1. The FT line to the the top of the FT semi-circle is six feet.
2. The division line to the top of the center restraining circle is six feet.
3. The width of the FT lane is twelve feet. So from the middle of the lane to either side is six feet.
4. Any two adjoining marked lane spaces encompass six feet of space.
5. If you are standing on the 28' has mark which forms the end of the coaching box nearest the table and looking straight across the court, it is exactly three feet to the three point line at the apex of the FT semi-circle.

If you have two players near those areas, the court markings can really help you judge six feet. If you familiarize yourself with those markings and get a good feel for those distances, you can more readily translate it to other areas of the floor.

Anyway, it was helpful to me.

[shishstripes]

Great points Nevada, 5 isn't true for all courts but 1-4 are excellent points.

[BillyMac]

Remember it's 1.8288 meters for our Ontario neighbors who, unlike the rest of
Canada, I believe still use NFHS, not FIBA, rules. I'm sure that JugglingReferee can enlighten us regarding this.

http://www.unitconversion.org/length...onversion.html

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Remember it's 1.8288 meters for our Ontario neighbors who, unlike the rest of
Canada, I believe still use NFHS, not FIBA, rules. I'm sure that JugglingReferee can enlighten us regarding this.

http://www.unitconversion.org/length...onversion.html

Ontario was the only province to use Fed, and now it's just Ontario HS. Rumours are that Ontario HS goes to FIBA in 2011 or so.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I have been given some tips on how to use the markings on the floor to help judge that six-foot distance during play.

1. The FT line to the the top of the FT semi-circle is six feet.
2. The division line to the top of the center restraining circle is six feet.
3. The width of the FT lane is twelve feet. So from the middle of the lane to either side is six feet.
4. Any two adjoining marked lane spaces encompass six feet of space.
5. If you are standing on the 28' has mark which forms the end of the coaching box nearest the table and looking straight across the court, it is exactly three feet to the three point line at the apex of the FT semi-circle.

6. On a standard HS court, it's just about 12' (I think it's really 12'3" or something) between the 3-point arc and the center circle.

Helpful hints on measuring that six feet. I'll have to keep these in mind.

I did have a coach on Saturday morning (Boys JV game) who kept yelling "five" every time any of his guys were in a LGP on someone with a ball, even when they weren't remotely close to six feet within. A couple times, he was yelling it when they didn't have LGP. 1st Q, I kind of let it go as stupidity on his part, but early in 2nd Q, I realized he was trying to be an a** so I talked to him during a dead ball and told him they have to be six feet or less and LGP. He pretty much knocked it off after, yelling "five" only when he saw my partner or I swing our arms on the count. Halftime, I told him to knock it off or he would be getting the gift that taketh the box in the 2nd half.

[bigdogrunnin]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Helpful hints on measuring that six feet. I'll have to keep these in mind.

I did have a coach on Saturday morning (Boys JV game) who kept yelling "five" every time any of his guys were in a LGP on someone with a ball, even when they weren't remotely close to six feet within. A couple times, he was yelling it when they didn't have LGP. 1st Q, I kind of let it go as stupidity on his part, but early in 2nd Q, I realized he was trying to be an a** so I talked to him during a dead ball and told him they have to be six feet or less and LGP. He pretty much knocked it off after, yelling "five" only when he saw my partner or I swing our arms on the count. Halftime, I told him to knock it off or he would be getting the gift that taketh the box in the 2nd half.

I have done this before . . .when a coach or a team on the bench has been repeatedly counting as I count my 5-sec CG count . . . I stop counting and drop my arm. Coach asks why . . . "Coach, when you start counting over me, I get lost and have to start over." Usually ends their counting, and allows me to do the job. Doesn't work for everyone, and I am certain some will disagree, but wanted to put it out there.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Helpful hints on measuring that six feet. I'll have to keep these in mind.

I did have a coach on Saturday morning (Boys JV game) who kept yelling "five" every time any of his guys were in a LGP on someone with a ball, even when they weren't remotely close to six feet within. A couple times, he was yelling it when they didn't have LGP. 1st Q, I kind of let it go as stupidity on his part, but early in 2nd Q, I realized he was trying to be an a** so I talked to him during a dead ball and told him they have to be six feet or less and LGP. He pretty much knocked it off after, yelling "five" only when he saw my partner or I swing our arms on the count. Halftime, I told him to knock it off or he would be getting the gift that taketh the box in the 2nd half.

LGP is not required.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

LGP is not required.

You are correct in saying it's not required per the closely guarded rule, but when applying the definition of guarding, it is required, otherwise, you could have a defender who's back is facing the dribbler and start a count. By rule, that can't happen because the defender does not have a guarding position as defined by the rule.

4-10 says: A closely guarded situation occurs when a player in control of the ball is in his/her team's frontcourt, is continously guarded by any opponent who is within six feet of the player who is holding or dribbling the ball. The distance shall be measured from the forward foot/feet of the defender to the forward foot/feet of the ball handler. A closely guarded count shall be terminated when the offensive player in control of the ball gets his/her head and shoulder past the defensive player.


4-23-1 says: Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. There is no minimum distance required between the guard and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded.

4-23-2-b says: The front of the guard's torso must be facing the opponent.

Before you read me the riot act that I'm reading too much into it, I had a D3/NAIA/JUCO official read me the riot act for not applying the above 3 citations correctly in a closely guarded situation in a HS JV game he was watching me work a few years ago. To top it off, said official is also an attorney, so I didn't question his cross-referencing, etc.

Yes, Snaqwells, you are correct the rule does not require LGP, but the applications of the definitions does. Sorry if I sounded like a snot or something, but just wanted to point out why I used LGP in my posting.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

6. On a standard HS court, it's just about 12' (I think it's really 12'3" or something) between the 3-point arc and the center circle.

For an 84' court that distance is exactly 11'.
For a 94' court it would be 16'.

Note that the top of the 3-point arc is 25' from the end line.

[biz]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1. The FT line to the the top of the FT semi-circle is six feet.

Is that right? I haven't pulled out my court markings guide in a while, but isn't the FT line 15 feet from the basket and 3 point line 19'9". I could be wrong but that was my recollection.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by biz

Is that right? I haven't pulled out my court markings guide in a while, but isn't the FT line 15 feet from the basket and 3 point line 19'9". I could be wrong but that was my recollection.

biz,
You are correct. The FT line is 15 feet to the BACKBOARD while the 19'9" is measured to the CENTER OF THE BASKET (since it doesn't make sense to measure the arc from the back board). In reality, most folks would tell you that a jumper from the top of the key is actually a 21 footer -- and a shot from the FT line is a 15 footer.

[biz]

gotcha...thanks for the distinction...I guess I missed the fine print on that one.

[deecee]

I carry a 2 meter ruler that i lay on the floor at the tip of the farthest forward foot of the defender. If the ruler makes contact with the offensive player i have a count. It just gets tricky constantly laying the ruler down and picking it up and NOT effecting the play at all. But I think after 3 years of doing this I am getting better.