LGP/Player Control

[rockyroad]

I know this topic has come up several times this winter, but last night was the first time I have ever seen this little off-shoot of it!

GV game. Pass tipped away and the race is on. A1 dives for ball and tips it farther away. B2 does the same. A4 and B4 are now racing each other to the ball. A4 gets there first (barely) and is picking up the ball as B4 dives in front of her. No contact on the dive, but now A4 is losing her balance, so she steps over B4 (straddles her) with her right leg, starts her dribble and steps over with her left leg. Official then blows the whistle and calls aPC foul on A4. There was absolutely no contact from either player!

In his brief explanation to the coach, the official claimed that B4 had LGP and you can't "go over" (his exact words) a player who has LGP.

One of the weirdest (and dumbest) calls I have ever seen. And it was A4's fifth foul.

[Adam]

Ouch!

[eyezen]

Wow, just wow!!!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I know this topic has come up several times this winter, but last night was the first time I have ever seen this little off-shoot of it!

GV game. Pass tipped away and the race is on. A1 dives for ball and tips it farther away. B2 does the same. A4 and B4 are now racing each other to the ball. A4 gets there first (barely) and is picking up the ball as B4 dives in front of her. No contact on the dive, but now A4 is losing her balance, so she steps over B4 (straddles her) with her right leg, starts her dribble and steps over with her left leg. Official then blows the whistle and calls aPC foul on A4. There was absolutely no contact from either player!

In his brief explanation to the coach, the official claimed that B4 had LGP and you can't "go over" (his exact words) a player who has LGP.

One of the weirdest (and dumbest) calls I have ever seen. And it was A4's fifth foul.

rockyroad:

Everybody knows my position that if an official would call a charge on 100% of the bang-bang block/charge plays, the official would be correct at least 95% of the time.

But this is not a bang-bang block/charge play. This is a BLOCK, if and only if there WAS contact, BUT since there was no contact there can be NO foul.

Remember, what is the first requirement of obtaining (NFHS)/establishing (NCAA/FIBA) a LGP: Two (feet) the floor facing the offensive player.


Having said that, one could possibly present a credible case that B4 set a legal screen against A4.

BUT: since there was NO contact that can be NO foul.

MTD, Sr.

[shishstripes]

How can you have a contact-type of foul without contact? Why do people make up stuff like this (rhetorical question)? So if A1 is legally guarded by B1 and A1 steps over B1's foot that's PC? This is taking verticality to a whole new level.

[OHBBREF]

Rock -
did the crew talk about this call at all before the game proceeded?
This is one of those that it might have been a good idea to get together on and strighten this guy out - becauseyou just kicked a rule - (90 yard field goal attempt is up and it is good) - this is the stuff that assignors look at for moving up, and when giving those "BIG" games out, assigning the R.

this ais a big old WOW for the calling official and the crew.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Rock -
did the crew talk about this call at all before the game proceeded?
This is one of those that it might have been a good idea to get together on and strighten this guy out - becauseyou just kicked a rule - (90 yard field goal attempt is up and it is good) - this is the stuff that assignors look at for moving up, and when giving those "BIG" games out, assigning the R.

this ais a big old WOW for the calling official and the crew.

Do you run all your calls by your partners to make sure you all agree on the rule application?

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Do you run all your calls by your partners to make sure you all agree on the rule application?

If I see one of my partners is going to kick a rule I will step in and offer a little help giving them the oportunity to not kick the rule.

I have lost a game as a crew when we kicked a rule, I have also been the one on a crew not to lose a game because I stepped in and said I think you are about to kick said rule.

I realize that it is different when we are talking REC and FED and NCAA how you handle things but, if I know we are about to kick something I try to avoid it any level.

[Adam]

Sure, my point, however, is that I'm likely not to know that my partner screwed this up that badly.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Sure, my point, however, is that I'm likely not to know that my partner screwed this up that badly.

This particular call isn't one that is going to cost us a game.
It might get the calling official fired, but like you said as a crew we probably aren't now just how bad this one got screwed up until later and thus are not going to hang on this one.

But if the coach called you over after his explaination and said, "Snaq's I'm I think your partner has the wrong interpretation on that last call he told me, yada yada is why he made that call"

Now what do we do?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

This particular call isn't one that is going to cost us a game.
It might get the calling official fired, but like you said as a crew we probably aren't now just how bad this one got screwed up until later and thus are not going to hang on this one.

But if the coach called you over after his explaination and said, "Snaq's I'm I think your partner has the wrong interpretation on that last call he told me, yada yada is why he made that call"

Now what do we do?

On this one? I'm gonna back my partner up best I can, then have a talk when we get a chance.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Rock -
did the crew talk about this call at all before the game proceeded?
This is one of those that it might have been a good idea to get together on and strighten this guy out - becauseyou just kicked a rule - (90 yard field goal attempt is up and it is good) - this is the stuff that assignors look at for moving up, and when giving those "BIG" games out, assigning the R.

this ais a big old WOW for the calling official and the crew.

Nope. No discussion on the court. As the boys teams were warming up, one of the officials stuck his head out of the locker room and asked me to come and talk with them about it. He still wouldn't admit he was wrong and swore up and down that in that particular play, you didn't need contact to call a foul as it was "unsporting conduct to step over a player like that. It showed her up." Sigh...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Nope. No discussion on the court. As the boys teams were warming up, one of the officials stuck his head out of the locker room and asked me to come and talk with them about it. He still wouldn't admit he was wrong and swore up and down that in that particular play, you didn't need contact to call a foul as it was "unsporting conduct to step over a player like that. It showed her up." Sigh...

Then why not the T? Good grief.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

He still wouldn't admit he was wrong and swore up and down that in that particular play, you didn't need contact to call a foul as it was "unsporting conduct to step over a player like that. It showed her up." Sigh...

Wow - kicked two rules then!