Lob Just Before the Buzzer

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

If it went in, disallow if you are sure it is a pass????

As others have stated, you still count the basket.

Rule 5-1-1: "A goal is made if a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through." No mention that there has to be a "shot", "attempt", "try", etc.

So, how about whether it's a 3-point basket? 5-2-1: "A successful try, tap, or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team's own 19'-9" arc counts 3 points." There are, of course, the exceptions, such as if the ball touches the floor first, touches a teammate inside the arc, etc.

Iow, we don't have to judge if it's a shot or pass, even to count a 3-point basket.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

As others have stated, you still count the basket.

Rule 5-1-1: "A goal is made if a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through." No mention that there has to be a "shot", "attempt", "try", etc.

So, how about whether it's a 3-point basket? 5-2-1: "A successful try, tap, or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team's own 19'-9" arc counts 3 points." There are, of course, the exceptions, such as if the ball touches the floor first, touches a teammate inside the arc, etc.

Iow, we don't have to judge if it's a shot or pass, even to count a 3-point basket.

Except that this isn't about whether it should count 3 points, it's whether it should count at all - the ball only stays live after the clock expires if it's a try. Otherwise the horn causes it to immediately become dead.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Except that this isn't about whether it should count 3 points, it's whether it should count at all - the ball only stays live after the clock expires if it's a try. Otherwise the horn causes it to immediately become dead.

Huh? are you saying you would waive it off?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by deecee

Huh? are you saying you would waive it off?

Nope. I even posted above that I saw the play and believe it was a shot.

My point was simply that M&M's citation doesn't apply to this situation. In order to wave something like this off, I'd have to be 100% certain it was a pass and not a shot...and I'm rarely 100% certain of anything these days.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So, how about whether it's a 3-point basket? 5-2-1: "A successful try, tap, or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team's own 19'-9" arc counts 3 points." There are, of course, the exceptions, such as if the ball touches the floor first, touches a teammate inside the arc, etc.

Another one of those exceptions is if the ball is dead...like after a period ends.

[LeeBallanfant]

My rationale here is Rule 4-69-1
Art. 1. A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three points
by throwing or tapping the ball into his or her basket.

and 5-7-3
Art. 3. Each period shall end when time expires except that:
a. When the ball is in flight during a try, the period shall end when the
try ends.

A pass is not a try (player fouled on pass does not get 2 shots unless in bonus) therefore period ends no basket.

[M&M Guy]

Boy, can I get myself in trouble if I don't read everything first...I skimmed right over the part about the period ending.

Yes, you are correct that if you indeed judge it to be a pass, the ball becomes dead immediately on the horn. The only way the ball is not dead on the horn is if the ball is in flight during a try. I initially thought you were making the blanket statement that you do not count the basket on any pass.

Now comes the part the others are saying - would you be 115% certain it was a pass? Every last second situation like that I've seen involves a player heaving the ball towards the basket, and therefore would be considered a try/shot. It would have to be painfully obvious to everyone, including the blind guy with his dog up in the top row, that the player lost track of the time and was just trying to pass it to his teammate.

Maybe I will make the appointment with the optometrist as the coach suggested last night...

[LeeBallanfant]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Now comes the part the others are saying - would you be 115% certain it was a pass? Every last second situation like that I've seen involves a player heaving the ball towards the basket, and therefore would be considered a try/shot. It would have to be painfully obvious to everyone, including the blind guy with his dog up in the top row, that the player lost track of the time and was just trying to pass it to his teammate.

Maybe I will make the appointment with the optometrist as the coach suggested last night...

I agree that it would be a rare call and I can only think of calling it if they had used that same play 3 or 4 times in the half.

But lets look at another scenario without the clock.

Same play team A not in bonus, A1 is fouled while throwing up lob,
1) A2 grabs ball in air and dunks
2) A2 hears whistle and stops and watches as ball misses rim by two feet.

Are you going to award 2 shots for foul in act of shooting?

[walter]

To quote the cartoon character Johnny Bravo, "two words for you baby, Nope!" Count it!