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Old Wed Jan 21, 2009, 09:10pm
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Question Weird inbounds play

JV boys game, working alone because AD messed up scheduling.

White has an A/P throwin along the sideline. Blue has already been warned for delay (and picked up an intentional foul in the process for striking an inbounding player).

I bounce the thrower the ball and step back, ready to chop time. Then he does something silly. He reaches the ball across the boundary line, right in front of the blue defender, just as if he's about to start a dribble and go around him.

Blue sees the ball in front of him and instinctively reaches for it. Both players simultaneously possess the ball and I blow the whistle for the held ball... then my brain freezes.

How should this be handled? Remember, white had the ball for an A/P throwin. I've bounced this around a few heads in our group and gotten an array of answers, including one that I couldn't have a held ball because white was out of bounds with possession (but I don't buy that). Thanks!
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2009, 09:30pm
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The throw-in was never finished because White A1 still had his hands on the ball. Therefore, the arrow has not been changed. It is still White's AP throw-in with Blue on defense.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2009, 09:32pm
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HELD BALL ON THROW-IN NO ARROW CHANGE
6.4.5 SITUATION B: During an alternating-possession throw-in, thrower A1
holds the ball through the end-line plane and B1 grabs it, resulting in a held ball.
RULING: Since the throw-in had not ended and no violation occurred, it is still As
ball for an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-42-5)
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2009, 09:36pm
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If A has the arrow at the start of the third and the ball is inbounded off A1's leg without any possession does the arrow go to B. I assumed it does, just wanted to check. oh and not a kicked ball or anything.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2009, 09:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
The throw-in was never finished because White A1 still had his hands on the ball. Therefore, the arrow has not been changed. It is still White's AP throw-in with Blue on defense.
Holy crap, I got it right.

Nevadaref, thanks for the reference. My books are in the office and this was going to drive me nuts.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2009, 10:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
If A has the arrow at the start of the third and the ball is inbounded off A1's leg without any possession does the arrow go to B. I assumed it does, just wanted to check. oh and not a kicked ball or anything.
The throw-in ends when the ball legally touches or is touched by a player who is inbounds or out-of-bounds.

The AP arrow reverses when the throw-in ends. What happens after that moment has no impact on the AP arrow.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2009, 10:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
If A has the arrow at the start of the third and the ball is inbounded off A1's leg without any possession does the arrow go to B. I assumed it does, just wanted to check. oh and not a kicked ball or anything.
Assuming A1 is an inbounds player, yes switch the arrow because the throw-in ended when the ball hit A1. Because it then went OB, B gets the ball and the arrow.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2009, 10:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
Assuming A1 is an inbounds player, yes switch the arrow because the throw-in ended when the ball hit A1. Because it then went OB, B gets the ball and the arrow.
Unnecessary assumption. Check 4-42-5b.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2009, 10:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbeardedbryan View Post
JV boys game, working alone because AD messed up scheduling.

White has an A/P throwin along the sideline. Blue has already been warned for delay (and picked up an intentional foul in the process for striking an inbounding player).

I bounce the thrower the ball and step back, ready to chop time. Then he does something silly. He reaches the ball across the boundary line, right in front of the blue defender, just as if he's about to start a dribble and go around him.

Blue sees the ball in front of him and instinctively reaches for it. Both players simultaneously possess the ball and I blow the whistle for the held ball... then my brain freezes.

How should this be handled? Remember, white had the ball for an A/P throwin. I've bounced this around a few heads in our group and gotten an array of answers, including one that I couldn't have a held ball because white was out of bounds with possession (but I don't buy that). Thanks!

bigbeardedbryan:

You have gotten some pretty good advice already in this thread. But now I have a question: Why in the world did you officiate a boy's H.S. JV game by yourself. Yes, I know it is not about us, it is about the players. And that is why, I would not have officiated this game by myself.

Just last Saturday afternoon, Mark, Jr., and I officiated a boys' H.S. FR game as a two-man crew (yeah, I know, Mark, Jr., was really officiating the game by himself since I was his partner, ) and it should have been officiated by a three-man crew.

The game of basketball at the H.S. level is difficult enough to officiate with a two-man crew that H.S. level and above games should be officiated with a three-man crew. There is just too much going on inbounds for one official to watch.

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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 02:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
Assuming A1 is an inbounds player, yes switch the arrow because the throw-in ended when the ball hit A1. Because it then went OB, B gets the ball and the arrow.
The ball must be legally touched for the throw-in to end, and a kick is not legal. 4-42-5-a
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 03:26am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
if a has the arrow at the start of the third and the ball is inbounded off a1's leg without any possession does the arrow go to b. I assumed it does, just wanted to check. Oh and not a kicked ball or anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by akofl View Post
the ball must be legally touched for the throw-in to end, and a kick is not legal. 4-42-5-a
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 03:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Why in the world did you officiate a boy's H.S. JV game by yourself?
Agree and 2-1-2 The game officials shall be a referee and an umpire or a referee and two umpires...I know time and money are put into getting v team there etc. Personally when others say they are working 1-man, it often makes me wonder. And you often have agreements that when you work by yourself you get payed for both or extra with the schools and your associations?
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 08:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Why in the world did you officiate a boy's H.S. JV game by yourself.
Because unless there is a safety issue (e.g., water on the floor) or equipment issue (e.g., broken rim and no replacement), the rule of thumb is to play the game. Everybody's there, except your partner. Everybody expects a game to be played. Play the game, do your best, don't take crap.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 08:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
Because unless there is a safety issue (e.g., water on the floor) or equipment issue (e.g., broken rim and no replacement), the rule of thumb is to play the game. Everybody's there, except your partner. Everybody expects a game to be played. Play the game, do your best, don't take crap.
I've done/started plenty like this. But, never above the 7th/8th grade level. I could see how it is different at the higher level. But, I'd probably go for it.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 08:55am
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I had a situation once where my partner never showed for a boys reserve (sophomore) game, and the AD actually went and got a shirt from the coaches, and worked the game with me. Had me redo the payment voucher so I got my game fee, as well as my partner's. I told the AD, we could always use more officials, to which he replied thanks but no thanks. He was actually pretty good, probably better than the partner I was supposed to have.
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