NFHS Rules/Mechanics Exams, Part II, and TheViper

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I wonder if TheViper couldn't stand the fire in the kitchen because the aforementioned thread has disappeared.

I do not think I was too harsh on the lad. Mark, Jr., is eligible to take the Class 2 to 1 Exam this year for the first time and he isn't taking it because between his regular college classes at Ohio Northern and his AFROTC classes at Bowling Green S.U. he has better things to do with his free time (like study for college, ). And besides, no official is ready to do a varsity game after only two years of officiating.

MTD, Sr.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

And besides, no official is ready to do a varsity game after only two years of officiating.

MTD, Sr.

You may be if you're in SoCal!

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I wonder if TheViper couldn't stand the fire in the kitchen because the aforementioned thread has disappeared.

I do not think I was too harsh on the lad. Mark, Jr., is eligible to take the Class 2 to 1 Exam this year for the first time and he isn't taking it because between his regular college classes at Ohio Northern and his AFROTC classes at Bowling Green S.U. he has better things to do with his free time (like study for college, ). And besides, no official is ready to do a varsity game after only two years of officiating.

MTD, Sr.

Mark,
The Viper has made a mistake (whoever actually made that post). You pointed that mistake out to him. I do not blame him for pulling his post -- especially including his phone number and e-mail address which was not a good idea. I do not blame you for pointing out that this request was inappropriate.

Of course, it is POSSIBLE that someone else posted his personal information. But, let's assume that it was his post. I can't speak to the "rust belt" part of Ohio anymore, but his post is interesting from my viewpoint.

In the Central District, a new official could easily get "help" from any of a number of experienced officials within the new official's association or from his former instructor. Perhaps the only individuals who would not know this would be new officials who are exempt from the local meeting requirement their first year. Since they do not have to attend meetings their first year, they may not have joined a local association, yet.

I can only guess that this individual does not have senior official that is mentoring him. This individual likely just took the class, got assigned some games and looked to upgrade thinking that was the next logical step.

In Central Ohio, some of our newer officials will upgrade to Class 1. While this means that they are ELIGIBLE to do varsity contests, typically, these officials will not be assigned varsity games for at least a couple more years.

I do not have any problem with your decision to point out the error in this individual's ways. At the same time, I think that it is also appropriate to point out that in order to get this individual moving in the right direction.

At times, I have a hard time remembering what I did when I was 18 - 20 years old, I do know that I made some mistakes. I hope that this individual is able to get in touch with a senior official/mentor in his area in order to get "help" in becoming a better Class 2 official and then a Class 1 official in the proper manner. While it is not proper to get the exams ahead of time, there are certainly programs in place that can legally help him prepare for the advancement test.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Mark,
The Viper has made a mistake (whoever actually made that post). You pointed that mistake out to him. I do not blame him for pulling his post -- especially including his phone number and e-mail address which was not a good idea. I do not blame you for pointing out that this request was inappropriate.

Of course, it is POSSIBLE that someone else posted his personal information. But, let's assume that it was his post. I can't speak to the "rust belt" part of Ohio anymore, but his post is interesting from my viewpoint.

In the Central District, a new official could easily get "help" from any of a number of experienced officials within the new official's association or from his former instructor. Perhaps the only individuals who would not know this would be new officials who are exempt from the local meeting requirement their first year. Since they do not have to attend meetings their first year, they may not have joined a local association, yet.

I can only guess that this individual does not have senior official that is mentoring him. This individual likely just took the class, got assigned some games and looked to upgrade thinking that was the next logical step.

In Central Ohio, some of our newer officials will upgrade to Class 1. While this means that they are ELIGIBLE to do varsity contests, typically, these officials will not be assigned varsity games for at least a couple more years.

I do not have any problem with your decision to point out the error in this individual's ways. At the same time, I think that it is also appropriate to point out that in order to get this individual moving in the right direction.

At times, I have a hard time remembering what I did when I was 18 - 20 years old, I do know that I made some mistakes. I hope that this individual is able to get in touch with a senior official/mentor in his area in order to get "help" in becoming a better Class 2 official and then a Class 1 official in the proper manner. While it is not proper to get the exams ahead of time, there are certainly programs in place that can legally help him prepare for the advancement test.

CMHCoachNRef:

According to OhioHSAA records he is first year basketball official and a member of the Ohio Valley Basketball Officials Association; this information comes straight from the MyOhioHSAA website.

I agree with you that younger officials get help from bald old geezers like you and me (you probably aren't old and bald like me, ). But the fact remains is that he wanted information that only and LOA secretary or interpreter would have.

Even though I now reside in the OhioHSAA's NW District, I still maintain memberships in to BkbOA in the NE District and have basketball officiating friends in the East District. What took me by suprise was the fact that the OVBOA is in the East District and not the SE District. When I first searched MyOhioHSAA for him I searched in the NE District and got no hits. I then did a reverse telephone number search and it told me what city he lived in and that gave me the information to search MyOhioHSAA in the East District which is where I found him via his telephone number and email address.

I guess he who lives by the pen shall die by the pen. LOL

MTD, Sr.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

And besides, no official is ready to do a varsity game after only two years of officiating.

MTD, Sr.

I know assigners that beg to differ.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I know assigners that beg to differ.

Due to the number of officials relative to the number of assignments, unless you are Mendy Rudolph's son, Michael Jordan's son or otherwise on an incredibly fast-track, officials in Central Ohio do not even sniff a varsity game for at least three or four years.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Due to the number of officials relative to the number of assignments, unless you are Mendy Rudolph's son, Michael Jordan's son or otherwise on an incredibly fast-track, officials in Central Ohio do not even sniff a varsity game for at least three or four years.

Wow. Glad I don't live in central Ohio then.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Wow. Glad I don't live in central Ohio then.

Did I mention that it's 17 degrees and windy?

It is actually not so bad. Newer referees get plenty of opportunities to do Jr. High, Freshmen and JV games (in many cases, the Jr. High games are with very good varsity officials). By the time most of our newer referees get their first varsity games, they are ready for that level -- having done 3-man in one or more of the leagues that use 3-man for freshmen and JV games. They have also typically worked many 2-man JV and Freshmen games as well.

I have not seen it as much in basketball, but in soccer I have seen many officials put in games over their heads and they die on the field. Officials need to challenge themselves to improve by taking slightly higher level games over time. On the other hand, getting in over your head and not doing well......As Head and Shoulders once said, "You never get a second chance to make a first impression."

[deecee]

SoCal -- generally new officials (yrs. 1 & 2) get mostly lower level. but I had a couple varsity contests my first year (small school girls) and have had at least 2-5 since and the lst 2 years have been mostly varsity games.

But honestly the most competitive games I have had the previous few years have been either JV tourney semis or finals or the good freshman game matchup.

But I do not see why time of service should dictate whether or not a person can officiate a varsity games. There are some "varsity" officials who are simply there because they have 10+ years experience, and they are not better than guys who work lower level. I honestly wish we would put as much emphasis on ability rather than tenure in this profession. Because each are mutually exclusive. But I do agree that experience is helpful, especially because you would have been exposed to more situations. We lose good officials becuase they are not challenged often enough.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Did I mention that it's 17 degrees and windy?

It is actually not so bad. Newer referees get plenty of opportunities to do Jr. High, Freshmen and JV games (in many cases, the Jr. High games are with very good varsity officials). By the time most of our newer referees get their first varsity games, they are ready for that level -- having done 3-man in one or more of the leagues that use 3-man for freshmen and JV games. They have also typically worked many 2-man JV and Freshmen games as well.

I have not seen it as much in basketball, but in soccer I have seen many officials put in games over their heads and they die on the field. Officials need to challenge themselves to improve by taking slightly higher level games over time. On the other hand, getting in over your head and not doing well......As Head and Shoulders once said, "You never get a second chance to make a first impression."

It's 13 and windy right now here.

A lot of second-year guys that I know (Including myself) have varsity games this year. I had one girls varsity game my first year. We still do quite a bit of JH/Frosh/JV, but varsity in your second year isn't unheard of here.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by deecee

But I do not see why time of service should dictate whether or not a person can officiate a varsity games. There are some "varsity" officials who are simply there because they have 10+ years experience, and they are not better than guys who work lower level. I honestly wish we would put as much emphasis on ability rather than tenure in this profession. Because each are mutually exclusive. But I do agree that experience is helpful, especially because you would have been exposed to more situations. We lose good officials becuase they are not challenged often enough.

DC,
I can't disagree with many of your points. HOWEVER, I would argue that EXPERIENCE does have SIGNIFICANT value. Secondly, we must look at the officiating pyramid.

Let's say the average official officiates for 20 years (think about how many you probably personally know who have been officiating for significantly longer than that). Let's look at Official Newbie08 who just got his license on 12-01-08.

In 2008-09 let's assume that all varsity games in his state are properly covered with enough officials to do each of these games (in Central Ohio we have many more varsity officials than we have games). Let's assume that roughly 50% of the officials quit after 3 years or less and really never make it to the varsity level to any relevant extent. Let's assume that the number of available officials is increasing at about 5% per year (the number for basketball is higher than this number, but let's run with it for now).

If the average referee (excluding the 3 years or less guys) average 20 years before they retire, this means that about 5% of them retire each year (each year about 1/20 of them would be in their 20th year and then would retire). If we are adding 5% per year, this means that we are actually getting twice as many new officials as we have referees who are ready to retire. We replace the retiring 5% PLUS we add 5% more.

Now, back to Newbie08. He does games for two years and then feels ready to upgrade to Class 1 to do varsity games. So do his friends (the 10% of new officials in the class of 2008). But, alas, there are only 5% of the officials getting ready to retire. In fact, there are MANY five, six and seven year officials who are at least as good AND MORE EXPERIENCED than Newbie08, BUT many of these officials are not getting a full varsity schedule, either.

This is where the frustrations can set in for new officials. In basketball (at least in Central Ohio), we have more officials than we have games. Therefore, there is a bit of a logjam getting into the varsity level. Getting FR/JV games is quite easy. Getting Jr. High games is actually harder since many of the varsity officials do many of these games during the week and on weekends. Do we lose some good officials due to this situation? I am sure we do. On the other hand, enough stay around and work through the system that the occasional loss is not noticed -- at least not in basketball.

If you want to advance QUICKLY, referee LAX or soccer. If you are patient, work hard to improve each time out, are persistent, really hustle, listen to the key veterans, and prove to assignors that you can get the job done, you can advance in basketball, too. The stage will eventually be much bigger in basketball than these other sports.

From my perspective, there are two things you don't want to rush into at an early age -- marriage and officiating games that are above your pay grade.