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AKOFL Wed Jan 14, 2009 04:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 568505)
So if it is a 3 - and the T signals 2 and the C signals 3 and the scorer writes down 2 and then all of that other stuf I said in the previous post occurs you can not change it?

I think you are wrong by the intent if not the actual rule, however the most important thing here is that you get the call right, period. If the scorer puts a score in the book and I know it is wrong - I am changing it to what it should be when I get the chance. I am authorized to do so becuase points were put in the book and "the scorer did it wrong".

little off topic.
Now how about the not counting a basket at all?
in this day and age of computerized play by play (not all HS have this)/even most everyone has some radio or webcast going.
last night BV there were four books, two statisticians, I do not think I could have lost a point if I wanted to. There is too much information available for you not to be able to correct a score with fairly accurate knowledge.
This is one they should look at taking out of the correctable error line and just make it right the get the score or they do not.
If you see conflicting signals from your partners, blow it dead and take care of it right away. then you have no need to keep track of live ball, dead ball, and you get it right, right away. Good game management helps you here. Making sure of the points scored and making sure they come up on the board. I know we can't be watching the scoreboard all the time, but we can be watching our partners when a three is going up and throughout the game. I agree with you, we need to get it right and there are provisions for getting it right. Get it right sooner, later is not allowed by rule.

OHBBREF Wed Jan 14, 2009 04:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman (Post 568500)
2-11-11
" ... a bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the referee approves the final score ..."
You are only quoting part of the rule
ART. 11 . . . Compare records with the visiting scorer after each goal, each foul, each charged time-out, and end of each quarter and extra period, notifying the referee at once of any discrepancy. If the mistake cannot be found, the referee shall accept the record of the official scorebook, unless he/she has knowledge which permits him/her to decide otherwise. If the discrepancy is in the score and the mistake is not resolved, the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the official scorebook. A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the referee approves the final score. The scorebook of the home team shall be the official book, unless the referee rules otherwise. The official scorebook shall remain at the scorer's table throughout the game, including all intermissions.

No where in this rule does this refer to time limits or correctable error status it says notify the official when discovered, could be 2 minutes later.

Ch1town Wed Jan 14, 2009 04:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 568607)
No where in this rule does this refer to time limits or correctable error status it says notify the official when discovered, could be 2 minutes later.
CEs are in 2-10 you are looking under Scorers duties 2-11

AKOFL Wed Jan 14, 2009 04:58pm
OK. If you would like to wait until the end of the quarter or end of game so be it. I would rather take care of it as it happens then there is no memory to be jogged or other sit that will have an effect on "getting it right". Hey partner I had a look at the feet and am sure the foot was on the line, What did you see? End of game. Coach we have a score correction from earlier in the quarter you didn't win we are going to overtime, wrse yet no overtime you lost. Have fun with that.:eek:

OHBBREF Wed Jan 14, 2009 04:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKOFL (Post 568603)
If you see conflicting signals from your partners, blow it dead and take care of it right away. then you have no need to keep track of live ball, dead ball, and you get it right, right away. Good game management helps you here. Making sure of the points scored and making sure they come up on the board. I know we can't be watching the scoreboard all the time, but we can be watching our partners when a three is going up and throughout the game. I agree with you, we need to get it right and there are provisions for getting it right. Get it right sooner, later is not allowed by rule.
Pre-game pre-game pre-game and other have said, and that is true, but you have rebounding responibilities, and contact and other things going on if you are covering your primary as you should that you may not see your partners signal, and be able to fix it now. Your partner might not see you one of the very experience HS partners I worked with last night didn't mirror threes, stuff happens. you can not always stop play right away to correct the score, there could be a breakaway going on. So yes sooner rather than later is prefered. however when you walk over at the quarter and the score and the books do not agree you do have the authority to make the score right - right up until you approve it by leaving the facility.
2-11-11 in prior posting.

OHBBREF Wed Jan 14, 2009 05:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 568613)
CEs are in 2-10 you are looking under Scorers duties 2-11
I realize that - I am trying to get across the point that you can correct the score anytime that you find an error and you know it is wrong it does not fall under the limitations in 2-10 of the correctable error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKOFL (Post 568615)
OK. If you would like to wait until the end of the quarter or end of game so be it. I would rather take care of it as it happens then there is no memory to be jogged or other sit that will have an effect on "getting it right". Hey partner I had a look at the feet and am sure the foot was on the line, What did you see? End of game. Coach we have a score correction from earlier in the quarter you didn't win we are going to overtime, wrse yet no overtime you lost. Have fun with that.:eek:
Agree completely - I am just saying that this is not a correctable error it is a scorers mistake that can be crrected anytime you find it. Someone said that the error must be recognized by an official no later than during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started or we could not fix it.
;)

Adam Wed Jan 14, 2009 05:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 568621)
I realize that - I am trying to get across the point that you can correct the score anytime that you find an error and you know it is wrong it does not fall under the limitations in 2-10 of the correctable error.



Agree completely - I am just saying that this is not a correctable error it is a scorers mistake that can be crrected anytime you find it. Someone said that the error must be recognized by an official no later than during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started or we could not fix it.
;)
Signalling a three instead of a two falls under 2-10 and is limited on how long you can correct.

Signaling a three and the scorer puts down two falls under 2-11.

Conflicting signals aren't really conflicting signals. There is no signal for "two," only for "three." Therefore, if one signals for "three" and the other merely points to the floor (or puts up two fingers), you only have one valid signal. Correcting this to a two must be done within the time frame allowed for in the rules.

AKOFL Wed Jan 14, 2009 05:21pm
2.10.1 sit j A1 attempts a goal from behind the tree point line: (a) but the covering official fail to give the successful signal after the ball goes through the basket, and the scorer records only two points;or(b) and the covering official gives the successful signal, but the scorer records only two points. Team B inbound the ball and procedes to score. The coach of Team A goes to the table and request a 60 second time out to discuss the error. RULING: in(a) the error of not awarding three points is CORRECTABLE as it was detected prior to the second live ball after the error. The extra point is scored, the time out is not charged and the game continues from the POI. In(b) It is a mistake by the scorer which can be corrected any time until the final score has been approved.

Ch1town Wed Jan 14, 2009 05:24pm
^ Where was this say 20+ posts ago :) Way to go!

OHBBREF Wed Jan 14, 2009 05:28pm
Okay I was wrong,

I am still going to blame it on the scorer and get the score right if I have knowledge that it was a three and recorded as a two.

You have to get this right.

Rich Wed Jan 14, 2009 05:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKOFL (Post 568615)
OK. If you would like to wait until the end of the quarter or end of game so be it. I would rather take care of it as it happens then there is no memory to be jogged or other sit that will have an effect on "getting it right". Hey partner I had a look at the feet and am sure the foot was on the line, What did you see? End of game. Coach we have a score correction from earlier in the quarter you didn't win we are going to overtime, wrse yet no overtime you lost. Have fun with that.:eek:
I'm with you.

Matter of fact, one of the few things I tell the scorer/timer is that if there's ANY confusion on whether's there's a 2 or 3, I want a horn IMMEDIATELY and we WILL kill the play. I do not want to have to try to remember when the shot happened, etc. and do not want it to be 4 possessions later.

Working a 3-person boys game a few weeks ago, I was the trail and had a 2-point attempt from the corner. After the ball went through, the C unexplicably signaled a made 3 (touchdown). We didn't have to stop the game, though, as I immediately signaled 2 to him and then we both got the table's attention while the ball was still well in the backcourt.

Watching a JV game the other night, I couldn't believe how many 2-point shots (foot clearly on the line) were marked as 3-point attempts. Not that the game was well called in general...

AKOFL Wed Jan 14, 2009 05:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 568634)
^ Where was this say 20+ posts ago :) Way to go!
I was trying to avoid having to type that long thing.:p

rwest Wed Jan 14, 2009 05:42pm
I agree if....
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 568601)
If you classify a scoring mistake as a correctable error as some have - you would then be limited to the correctable error time period to get the score right.
I however advocate that if the score is wrong the score keep did it and I can correct the score right up until we walk out of the gym and thus approve the score.
I agree if it is a mistake by the score keeper. However, if it is a mistake by the officiating crew in that they did not correct their scoring mistake, then there is a definite time period and it is not until the jurisdiction of the officials ends.

AKOFL Wed Jan 14, 2009 05:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 568636)
Okay I was wrong,

I am still going to blame it on the scorer and get the score right if I have knowledge that it was a three and recorded as a two.

You have to get this right.
If you let the wrong team inbounds the ball what are you going to do?

BillyMac Wed Jan 14, 2009 08:10pm
Keep It Simple Snaqwells ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 568626)
Signalling a three instead of a two falls under 2-10 and is limited on how long you can correct. Signaling a three and the scorer puts down two falls under 2-11.
Seems simple enough.


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