pet peeve- traveling call

[ATXCoach]

I just coach AAU level (so I know my credibility is now shot with most of you), but I find it interesting how different area of the state (Texas) call traveling differently. Here in Austin it seems that the traveling calls are quite infrequent, whereas in San Antonio and Houston they are called much tighter.

pet peeve - power dribble up and under move being called a travel!!!! (back to the basket post player on block - lets say left foot is pivot foot - power dribbles to the paint stepping with the right foot, picks up the dribble, pivots 180 degrees on the right foot, pump fakes, steps through with the left foot, lifts the right foot, jumps off left foot and shoots). When a ref misses it once I assume that they were surprised to see it executed. When they miss it twice I know they aren't very experienced.

[mutantducky]

yeah the rules aren't all too clear if you read it for the first time. The jump stop one for example. I would have loved to ref Hakeem back in the day with all the moves he did. Barry Sanders of basketball. well maybe that is Chris Paul but either could fit.

[referee99]

Wait, the definitive source has it for us:

[mutantducky]

not bad. I love the doors. Where could they go?????

[Johnny Ringo]

That is the worst video I have ever seen ... "just remember you got two steps ..." HILARIOUS!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

That is the worst video I have ever seen ... "just remember you got two steps ..." HILARIOUS!

While is words may have not been precise, he correctly ruled on every one of the examples present. This is an example of a non-official that really understood what is and is not traveling but didn't have the "official" language.

[referee99]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

While is words may have not been precise, he correctly ruled on every one of the examples present. This is an example of a non-official that really understood what is and is not traveling but didn't have the "official" language.

........

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

This is an example of a non-official that really understood what is and is not traveling but didn't have the "official" language.

What about the quote ""if he lifts that pivot foot at any time it's considered a travel"? He also said "remember, you've got 2 steps, if you take more than that it's called a travel." This guy doesn't understand what traveling is. I could have explained everything he said in 10 seconds but it took him 2 minutes because he doesn't understand that lifting the pivot foot and returning it to the floor is traveling. That is all he had to say.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by referee99

Wait, the definitive source has it for us:

"If you lift your pivot foot at any time it's a travel".

This guy is a tool.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Traveling is across the board the most inconsistent call officials make in my opinion.
however if we called every travel games could run in the three hour range.
just for fin some night while watching an NCAA game on TV tick off the number of times a player lifts the pivot foot before beginning a dribble that are not called - or slides the pivot foot, or switches pivot feet quickly before taking off on a drive or shooting.

I think on the whole we are better at it but it still will take a lot more effort on everyone's including my part

Originally Posted by referee99

My take is the basic problem here is training. When new officials come into local associations in this area, illegal contact is discussed much more extensively -- I think there is an assumption that "everyone knows what traveling is".

Whether this is due to trainers own inconsistencies or understanding I don't know. Officials who are 'trained' in this fashion are off on the wrong foot (pivot or otherwise) and will be left to educate themselves.

PLUS -- the reading of the rules about what is and isn't traveling is not easy. A quick read through of the definition causes the brow to furrow. You really have to want it to 'own' the traveling rules. Then, you get to go out into the real world where clearly a significant percentage of officials don't 'own' the rule and make your way.

To confirm this statement, a couple years back (Winter 2006), I was asked to cover the travel call. Instead of a bunch of wordy situations, I elected to create about 15 - 20 short video clips. The meeting was attended by about 75 referees from one of our associations -- most are Class 1 Varsity Officials. These video clips were, relatively speaking, SIMPLE to identify. I only used one offensive player. No counts to be worried about, no other players moving about, no defensive player's feet confusing things, etc.

I simply played each clip at regular speed and asked if the play was a travel. Many of them were simple for 95+% of the officials. But, many of them required me to replay in either slow motion or frame-by-frame. In several of the cases, no more than 80 - 85% of the officials agreed one way or the other (one of them was the dreaded "bunny hop" into the shot with BOTH FEET CLEARLY ON THE FLOOR WHEN THE BALL WAS RECEIVED, followed with a small, BUT CLEAR, hop off both feet onto two feet followed by a shot OR a jab step and drive).

As an association, we have decided to expand that tape to include many more situations for our entry training classes for the 2009-10 season. I think that MOST new officials THINK that they (along with almost ALL coaches and spectators) know EXACTLY what a travel is or is not. The reality is, the call is very challenging. By grouping the video clips into a specific areas, we are hoping that we will be able to SHOW the travel calls/non-travel calls multiple times -- and test them during the class multiple times -- to make sure that we are communicating consistent messages to our newest officials.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

lets say left foot is pivot foot - power dribbles to the paint stepping with the right foot, picks up the dribble, pivots 180 degrees on the right foot, pump fakes, steps through with the left foot, lifts the right foot

this is something you have to see and by your description it has to look awkward and I can see two things
One if the left foot remained the piviot foot in this move this would be a blatant travel since that step through with the left foot would be replacing the pivot foot on the floor.
Second are you sure that the right foot isn't sliding while the player pivots 180 degrees because that would be a travel.

[OHBBREF]

Traveling is across the board the most inconsistant call officials make in my opinion.
however if we called every travel games could run in the three hour range.
just for fin some night while watching an NCAA game on TV tick off the number of times a player lifts the pivot foot before begining a dribble that are not called - or slides the pivot foot, or switches pivot feet quickly before taking off on a drive or shooting.

I think on the whole we are better at it but it still will take a lot more effort on everyone's including my part

[ATXCoach]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

this is something you have to see and by your description it has to look awkward and I can see two things
One if the left foot remained the piviot foot in this move this would be a blatant travel since that step through with the left foot would be replacing the pivot foot on the floor.
Second are you sure that the right foot isn't sliding while the player pivots 180 degrees because that would be a travel.

The move is legal - (in my example) the right foot becomes the pivot foot after the power dribble.

I am not trying to say that my players never make a mistake - obviously we all do - but when you ask the ref after he/she has called it a travel a time or two, "Why is it a travel?" and the response is "because they picked up their pivot foot before they shot the ball" then you pretty much know all you need to know about that particular ref.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

The move is legal - (in my example) the right foot becomes the pivot foot after the power dribble.

I am not trying to say that my players never make a mistake - obviously we all do - but when you ask the ref after he/she has called it a travel a time or two, "Why is it a travel?" and the response is "because they picked up their pivot foot before they shot the ball" then you pretty much know all you need to know about that particular ref.

I wasn't disagreeing with you - as written it is a legal move if the right foot becomes the pivot foot after the spin move (where it doesn't slide) or move during the pump fake etc etc.
there is a whole lot going on there and a lot of area for a travle to occur, but given the explaination you were given - you might as well get your T now and sit down and watch the festivities, because it is going to be a long afternoon! Sorry coach

[ATXCoach]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

I wasn't disagreeing with you - as written it is a legal move if the right foot becomes the pivot foot after the spin move (where it doesn't slide) or move during the pump fake etc etc.
there is a whole lot going on there and a lot of area for a travle to occur, but given the explaination you were given - you might as well get your T now and sit down and watch the festivities, because it is going to be a long afternoon! Sorry coach

I like to think that my technicals are all calculated events to help my team in the future, but I am probably suffering from a little revisionist history. I am sure there are some embarrising coaching moments that have been erased from my mind.