pet peeve- traveling call

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

A game I had before my partner called a bunch and some of them were right, but others were just good moves.

While I feel your pain, my follow-up question would be:

If you're concentrating on doing your job and officiating your primary, how in the world would you know whetehr they were really travels or good moves?

Originally Posted by rockyroad

While I feel your pain, my follow-up question would be:

If you're concentrating on doing your job and officiating your primary, how in the world would you know whetehr they were really travels or good moves?

He was passing but his partner likes to call in front of him

[referee99]

My take is the basic problem here is training. When new officials come into local associations in this area, illegal contact is discussed much more extensively -- I think there is an assumption that "everyone knows what traveling is".

Whether this is due to trainers own inconsistencies or understanding I don't know. Officials who are 'trained' in this fashion are off on the wrong foot (pivot or otherwise) and will be left to educate themselves.

PLUS -- the reading of the rules about what is and isn't traveling is not easy. A quick read through of the definition causes the brow to furrow. You really have to want it to 'own' the traveling rules. Then, you get to go out into the real world where clearly a significant percentage of officials don't 'own' the rule and make your way.

[ATXCoach]

I just coach AAU level (so I know my credibility is now shot with most of you), but I find it interesting how different area of the state (Texas) call traveling differently. Here in Austin it seems that the traveling calls are quite infrequent, whereas in San Antonio and Houston they are called much tighter.

pet peeve - power dribble up and under move being called a travel!!!! (back to the basket post player on block - lets say left foot is pivot foot - power dribbles to the paint stepping with the right foot, picks up the dribble, pivots 180 degrees on the right foot, pump fakes, steps through with the left foot, lifts the right foot, jumps off left foot and shoots). When a ref misses it once I assume that they were surprised to see it executed. When they miss it twice I know they aren't very experienced.

[mutantducky]

yeah the rules aren't all too clear if you read it for the first time. The jump stop one for example. I would have loved to ref Hakeem back in the day with all the moves he did. Barry Sanders of basketball. well maybe that is Chris Paul but either could fit.

[referee99]

Wait, the definitive source has it for us:

[mutantducky]

not bad. I love the doors. Where could they go?????

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by referee99

Wait, the definitive source has it for us:

"If you lift your pivot foot at any time it's a travel".

This guy is a tool.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

lets say left foot is pivot foot - power dribbles to the paint stepping with the right foot, picks up the dribble, pivots 180 degrees on the right foot, pump fakes, steps through with the left foot, lifts the right foot

this is something you have to see and by your description it has to look awkward and I can see two things
One if the left foot remained the piviot foot in this move this would be a blatant travel since that step through with the left foot would be replacing the pivot foot on the floor.
Second are you sure that the right foot isn't sliding while the player pivots 180 degrees because that would be a travel.

[OHBBREF]

Traveling is across the board the most inconsistant call officials make in my opinion.
however if we called every travel games could run in the three hour range.
just for fin some night while watching an NCAA game on TV tick off the number of times a player lifts the pivot foot before begining a dribble that are not called - or slides the pivot foot, or switches pivot feet quickly before taking off on a drive or shooting.

I think on the whole we are better at it but it still will take a lot more effort on everyone's including my part

[ATXCoach]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

this is something you have to see and by your description it has to look awkward and I can see two things
One if the left foot remained the piviot foot in this move this would be a blatant travel since that step through with the left foot would be replacing the pivot foot on the floor.
Second are you sure that the right foot isn't sliding while the player pivots 180 degrees because that would be a travel.

The move is legal - (in my example) the right foot becomes the pivot foot after the power dribble.

I am not trying to say that my players never make a mistake - obviously we all do - but when you ask the ref after he/she has called it a travel a time or two, "Why is it a travel?" and the response is "because they picked up their pivot foot before they shot the ball" then you pretty much know all you need to know about that particular ref.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

The move is legal - (in my example) the right foot becomes the pivot foot after the power dribble.

I am not trying to say that my players never make a mistake - obviously we all do - but when you ask the ref after he/she has called it a travel a time or two, "Why is it a travel?" and the response is "because they picked up their pivot foot before they shot the ball" then you pretty much know all you need to know about that particular ref.

I wasn't disagreeing with you - as written it is a legal move if the right foot becomes the pivot foot after the spin move (where it doesn't slide) or move during the pump fake etc etc.
there is a whole lot going on there and a lot of area for a travle to occur, but given the explaination you were given - you might as well get your T now and sit down and watch the festivities, because it is going to be a long afternoon! Sorry coach

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by referee99

My take is the basic problem here is training. When new officials come into local associations in this area, illegal contact is discussed much more extensively -- I think there is an assumption that "everyone knows what traveling is".

Whether this is due to trainers own inconsistencies or understanding I don't know. Officials who are 'trained' in this fashion are off on the wrong foot (pivot or otherwise) and will be left to educate themselves.

PLUS -- the reading of the rules about what is and isn't traveling is not easy. A quick read through of the definition causes the brow to furrow. You really have to want it to 'own' the traveling rules. Then, you get to go out into the real world where clearly a significant percentage of officials don't 'own' the rule and make your way.

As a new (1st yr.) official I agree. Travelling has been the hardest violation for me to recognize and call (or not cal) on a consistent basis. I'm sure I'm missing a lot as I'm still learning the art of watching everything that's going on in your primary. Any tips? advice?
Thanks as always...I've learned a ton in a very short time on this forum.
KJump