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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 03:17pm
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Held Ball

A1 driving to the basket, still has two hands on the ball as he goes up for the shot. B1 gets his hand on the ball and it causes A1 to lose balance. However, before landing A1 throws the ball up over his head in order to prevent a traveling call.

Is this a held ball? Does the fact the he eventually releases the ball negate the held ball? I called held ball.

4.25.2 makes me question that because it says its a held ball because the player was prevented from releasing the ball to try a shot or a pass.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 03:24pm
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If B1 prevented A1 from releasing the ball, even if for just a moment, then yes you have a held ball. Ball immediately dead and go to AP.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 03:43pm
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answer your own question -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
B1 gets his hand on the ball and it causes A1 to lose balance.
Did the ball leave A1's hands while B1 had hand(s) on the ball?

If not you made the right call - losing his balance is irrelivant to the held ball itself.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
Does the fact the he eventually releases the ball negate the held ball?
No if during the try B! prevented the ball from being released it is a held ball right there!
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Last edited by OHBBREF; Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 04:24pm.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 03:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz View Post
If B1 prevented A1 from releasing the ball, even if for just a moment, then yes you have a held ball. Ball immediately dead and go to AP.
Sounds right to me. And I love that you call it a held ball, not a jump ball. When you think "held ball" it is often easier to see why this goes to the arrow. The ball was not free to move, i.e. held.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 03:48pm
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But B1 didnt prevent the release as A1 was able to release the ball over his head. Would you make this call if the ball goes in the basket?
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 04:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF View Post
No if oduring the try B1 prevented the ball from being released it is a held ball right there!
Were you looking for the word 'orduring'? I wouldn't want to pick up the ball after that play!
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 04:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
But B1 didnt prevent the release as A1 was able to release the ball over his head. Would you make this call if the ball goes in the basket?
This is what I was thinking as well. Does the fact that act of shooting doesn't end until the airborne shooter comes to the ground in this case mean anything? The hand on the ball doesn't end the shot attempt and A1 did release the ball....granted once you blow your whistle you have a dead ball and a held ball, but if you watch this play all the way through before making this call do you let it go? Tough call if the ball goes in the basket....
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 04:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Were you looking for the word 'orduring'? I wouldn't want to pick up the ball after that play!
during
fixed it.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 04:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
But B1 didnt prevent the release as A1 was able to release the ball over his head. Would you make this call if the ball goes in the basket?
Not necessarily the case,
the ball could have been stopped from being released and as A lost their balance the ball came free and was released.

the initial stoppage could be considered a held ball.
I am more inclined to think that is what happened here.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 04:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
But B1 didnt prevent the release as A1 was able to release the ball over his head. Would you make this call if the ball goes in the basket?
I'm with deecee here. The rule specifically says PREVENT. If the offensive player is stronger and/or athletic enough to overpower or adjust the trying motion then defense did not prevent the try from happening. No Held ball.

The interpretation listed in the case books adds a phrase not in the rule book. The use of the term "immediately" in Case 4.25.2 has caused too many officials to erroneously interpret this as when B contacts the ball in airborne A's possession. A held ball can not be determined until resulting action takes place. In (a) the resulting action that caused the HB is A's airborne player touched the ground with the ball still in possession. B PREVENTED him from shooting.

As for 4.25.2b that sounds more like a blocked shot. No HB.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 04:37pm
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I think a patient whistle is a good way to settle this.

If A has the ball and is going up for a shot while B has their hands on the ball, watching the play all the way through to see if A can muscle through the potential held ball to get their shot off, then the official should let the play go on. However, if he/she can't play through it, a held ball should be called.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 04:40pm
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You will know if a player cannot muscle through it because they will return to earth with the ball still in their hand.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 04:43pm
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Then a held ball should be called when they return to earth.

I like how you referred to earth instead of the court.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 05:12pm
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I'm going with a held ball. If it was strong enough to know A1 off balance then it was held. A1's subsequent toss of the ball sounds like an independant act that was attempted after the shot was prevented.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2009, 06:16pm
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Who You Gonna Call? Mythbusters ...

When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked and is unable to release the ball and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in this situation, the shooter releases the ball, then this is simply a blocked shot and play continues. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and picks up the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor, whether, or not, the defensive player touches the ball in the block attempt.
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