Pre game dunk

[ma_ref]

I'm aware that dunking or attempting to dunk a ball during a dead ball (including pre-game) is a T on the player, indirect on the coach, etc...but my question is whether or not dunking/attempting to dunk at a basket which is not part of the playing court also applies?

Example: I had a 7th grade boys game this weekend in an elementary-school gym which had 6 baskets (2 on the full-length court, and 2 on each smaller court if the gym is divided down the middle. The baskets on the smaller, gym-divided courts were lower to the ground than the regulation baskets, thus making it more appealling to the kids during warm-ups to try out their Jordan-esque moves.

During their warm ups, 1 kid dunked on his way back to the end of the line. I let it slide, as it was wreck ball, and didn't include one of the game-used baskets. But were this V level play, I'm wondering about an interp on this? I thought the intent of the rule was to prevent unnecessary damage/bending to the baskets used during the game, but if these baskets were on the side and not used, then I'm wondering if this applies. T, yes or no?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

I'm aware that dunking or attempting to dunk a ball during a dead ball (including pre-game) is a T on the player, indirect on the coach, etc...but my question is whether or not dunking/attempting to dunk at a basket which is not part of the playing court also applies?

Example: I had a 7th grade boys game this weekend in an emelentary-school gym which had 6 baskets (2 on the full-length court, and 2 on each smaller court if the gym is divided down the middle. The baskets on the smaller, gym-divided courts were lower to the ground than the regulation baskets, thus making it more appealling to the kids during warm-ups to try out their Jordan-esque moves.

During their warm ups, 1 kid dunked on his way back to the end of the line. I let it slide, as it was wreck ball, and didn't include one of the game-used baskets. But were this V level play, I'm wondering about an interp on this? I thought the intent of the rule was to prevent unnecessary damage/bending to the baskets used during the game, but if these baskets were on the side and not used, then I'm wondering if this applies. T, yes or no?

I'd vote "no". The book defines the "Baskets" essentially as those at either end used for play. The baskets on side aren't, well, "Baskets". OTOH, I also think part of the rule is for "intimidation" -- so I might tell the team to knock it off.

I seriously doubt this becomes an issue in Varsity play.

[Scrapper1]

I agree with Bob. I would also hope that those baskets would be raised up during a varsity game.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'd vote "no". -- so I might tell the team to knock it off.

We have several gyms in the area that have lower, side hoops too. Not only dunking, but the players like to grab and hang onto the nets.

I use Bob's approach too and ask the player (a bit loudly sometimes) if their parents would like to pay for a new new hoop if they break or bend that one.....the parent quite often takes it from there......

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I use Bob's approach too and ask the player (a bit loudly sometimes) if their parents would like to pay for a new new hoop if they break or bend that one.....the parent quite often takes it from there......

I would not recommend getting into a conversation with a player over this
just walk up and tell them to knock it off, or tell the coach - do not invite a smart elik answer from the kid and you do not have the authority, in most cases, to make a kid pay for a rim!

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

I would not recommend getting into a conversation with a player over this
just walk up and tell them to knock it off, or tell the coach - do not invite a smart elik answer from the kid and you do not have the authority, in most cases, to make a kid pay for a rim!

OHBBREF - Understand what your saying and you're right. I use it rarely and only in a Rec League where I wield a bit more authority with the "powers that be" who run the league. I usually make my point and there is no real "conversation."

Your point is well taken though.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

Example: I had a 7th grade boys game this weekend in an emelentary-school gym

Must be a public school if they spell it that way.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Must be a public school if they spell it that way.

lol...my bad. Fixed it. I is smart.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Must be a public school if they spell it that way.

Seeing 'emelentary' reminded me of a story. I had a chemistry professor who hired a new secretary to type his manuscripts. He worked on a class of organic chemicals that combined amines with aldehydes, called 'aminals'.

His secretary thought they were all typos, and submitted a "fixed" version of his paper to a chemistry journal. Everyone got a good laugh about his cutting edge research on tiny molecular 'animals'.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Daryl ("Preacher" Long) and I had a game last Wednesday night and during our post-game dinner this type of play came up.


NFHS R10-S3-A3: "A player shall not grasp either basket during the time of the officials’ jurisdiction, dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball prior to or during the game or during any intermission until jurisdiction of the officials has ended. This item applies to all team members."


The blue and orange phrases in NFHS R1-S3-A3 are mutually exclusive.


The blue phrase deals with grasping either basket and Rule 2 defines a team basket and basket in this phrase has to refer to a team's basket. BUT, the orange phrase only refers to dunking or attempting to dunk a dead ball; it does not mention at which basket the dunk or attempted dunk must occur.

Therefore, Daryl and I agree it would be a TF in the OP.

MTD, Sr.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Daryl ("Preacher" Long) and I had a game last Wednesday night and during our post-game dinner this type of play came up.


NFHS R10-S3-A3: "A player shall not grasp either basket during the time of the officials’ jurisdiction, dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball prior to or during the game or during any intermission until jurisdiction of the officials has ended. This item applies to all team members."


The blue and orange phrases in NFHS R1-S3-A3 are mutually exclusive.


The blue phrase deals with grasping either basket and Rule 2 defines a team basket and basket in this phrase has to refer to a team's basket. BUT, the orange phrase only refers to dunking or attempting to dunk a dead ball; it does not mention at which basket the dunk or attempted dunk must occur.

MTD, Sr.

So you're saying that the V boys could agree to mutually warm up at the wrong end of the court, and dunk all they want, and because they're not dunking at the proper warm-up basket, there is no penalty associated with this act?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

So you're saying that the V boys could agree to mutually warm up at the wrong end of the court, and dunk all they want, and because they're not dunking at the proper warm-up basket, there is no penalty associated with this act?

JugglingReferee:

I forgot to give Daryl's and my ruling: which is, the dunking in the OP is a TF.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. I have edited my first post in this thread.

[Adam]

MTD, let me get this straight. You're saying that it's illegal to dunk at a side basket due ot the orange, but legal to grasp a side basket due to the blue. Right?

[Spence]

What about during halftime of a JV game when you see a varsity kid (warming up with other varsity players before JV team comes back from lockerroom) dunks?

Anything?

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Spence

What about during halftime of a JV game when you see a varsity kid (warming up with other varsity players before JV team comes back from lockerroom) dunks?

Anything?

If they are not players on either team you are officiating at the time you have no jurisdiction over them as far as dunking goes.

I did see one time where players from the host team were goofing off on the floor repeatedly at a tournament, and caused a situation where the ball couldn't be made live and the host team was accessed a technical foul at the start of their game.