Inbounds hand off rules

[Kevin W]

I am a coach of a youth 4th 5th grade girls basketball team. We had a game today and I argued with an official that he was handing the ball in to quickly. As soon as the girl stepped up that was throwing it in he would hand it to her and start the 5 second count. This resulted in several turnovers for us because we were not set up and scattered across the floor. I kept my cool for the first 4 or 5 times, but finally called him over on a timeout and voiced my opinion. He said he had been officiating youth basketball for 15 years and had never heard of any rules when handing the ball in. Well I played basketball since I was 5 to 34 and watched thousands of games in between and unless a team won't come out of a time-out in time the officials always allow the teams to set up before handing the ball to the passer. Is there any official rules in the book on this?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kevin W

I am a coach of a youth 4th 5th grade girls basketball team. We had a game today and I argued with an official that he was handing the ball in to quickly. As soon as the girl stepped up that was throwing it in he would hand it to her and start the 5 second count. This resulted in several turnovers for us because we were not set up and scattered across the floor. I kept my cool for the first 4 or 5 times, but finally called him over on a timeout and voiced my opinion. He said he had been officiating youth basketball for 15 years and had never heard of any rules when handing the ball in. Well I played basketball since I was 5 to 34 and watched thousands of games in between and unless a team won't come out of a time-out in time the officials always allow the teams to set up before handing the ball to the passer. Is there any official rules in the book on this?

No. Once the second horn goes, the team is supposed to be ready to play and once there's someone to throw in, the official is more than within his rights to put the ball in play. Actually, once the second horn goes, the official should either give the ball to the inbounder or put the ball on the floor and start the count. But officials will usually delay a bit if there's nobody there to take the throw.

You may try delaying having your player go to the inbounds spot. Or, better yet, get your players out quicker.

[JCurrie]

There is no rule regarding this. Depending on the level of play, some officials may hesitate a second or two to allow a really confused team to organize themselves. However, officials are encouraged to get the ball back into play quickly. If there is a player there for the throw-in, she should expect the ball as soon as she gets there. If there is no thrower, you should expect to see the ball on the floor.

[JRutledge]

First thing, welcome to the forum.

I honestly am a little confused what you are wanting. But once you give the ball to the thrower, the count starts. There is no waiting for everyone to set up provision in the rules.

It sounds to me like the official did the right thing, if I understand what you gripe is.

Peace

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Kevin W

I am a coach of a youth 4th 5th grade girls basketball team. We had a game today and I argued with an official that he was handing the ball in to quickly. As soon as the girl stepped up that was throwing it in he would hand it to her and start the 5 second count. This resulted in several turnovers for us because we were not set up and scattered across the floor. I kept my cool for the first 4 or 5 times, but finally called him over on a timeout and voiced my opinion. He said he had been officiating youth basketball for 15 years and had never heard of any rules when handing the ball in. Well I played basketball since I was 5 to 34 and watched thousands of games in between and unless a team won't come out of a time-out in time the officials always allow the teams to set up before handing the ball to the passer. Is there any official rules in the book on this?

Kevin,
One suggestion is to have the inbounder go to the throw-in spot a bit more deliberately. There is not a requirement that the team in possession must sprint to the throw-in spot. Make sure her teammates DO get quickly to their spots, but have the person taking the throw-in get their a bit slower.

Assuming that there are no subs coming in and no fouls to report (even in these cases, there is no specified time requirements, but these activities should give a team more than enough time to get in position for a throw-in), there is no specified time for the official to wait to put the ball at the disposition of the thrower. By the time I point to the specific spot and make eye contact with my partner(s), generally, the offense is in position for the play.

If a team is slow to get lined up, they may not be in position prior to the inbounder receiving the ball from one of us. But, this is very rare. We try to get the ball in play quickly to keep the flow of the game, but, we also try to give the offense (and defense) a reasonable amount of time to get ready for spot throw-ins.

[Kevin W]

Could someone tell me why there is no rules on this. You could have a player that dove for a loose ball that had not gotten up quickly enough to set up to defend the inbound pass and this would be a huge advantage to the offense. Surely there is some courtesy rule on this or I'm just crazy. Like I said before when I was playing in high school the official would always hold the ball for a few seconds even if the passer was standing there. Is there anyone that would agree with me on this.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Kevin W

Could someone tell me why there is no rules on this. You could have a player that dove for a loose ball that had not gotten up quickly enough to set up to defend the inbound pass and this would be a huge advantage to the offense. Surely there is some courtesy rule on this or I'm just crazy. Like I said before when I was playing in high school the official would always hold the ball for a few seconds even if the passer was standing there. Is there anyone that would agree with me on this.

There's nothing in the rulebook called a "courtesy rule". On a board like this, you're going to get a ruling according to the rules in the rulebook. I routinely work youth basketball and have for over 20 years. I administer inbounds according to the rules.

[Jmuvol]

As I would suspect of most officials, I hold the ball until I'm sure an procedural events are complete such as subs and my partner(s) are set and ready to go. As far as this being in the rule book, it would be hard to regulate. Goodness knows we have enough rules now.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kevin W

Could someone tell me why there is no rules on this. You could have a player that dove for a loose ball that had not gotten up quickly enough to set up to defend the inbound pass and this would be a huge advantage to the offense. Surely there is some courtesy rule on this or I'm just crazy. Like I said before when I was playing in high school the official would always hold the ball for a few seconds even if the passer was standing there. Is there anyone that would agree with me on this.

Because no one feels this is an issue. And I do not see a reason for such a rule. Get out of the huddle on time and you will not have to worry about someone being courtesy. Control what you can control.

Peace

[Adam]

On violations and fouls, once my partners are in place, we're rolling. I don't wait for the players to get set up, but I wait for my partners.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Kevin W

Could someone tell me why there is no rules on this. You could have a player that dove for a loose ball that had not gotten up quickly enough to set up to defend the inbound pass and this would be a huge advantage to the offense. Surely there is some courtesy rule on this or I'm just crazy. Like I said before when I was playing in high school the official would always hold the ball for a few seconds even if the passer was standing there. Is there anyone that would agree with me on this.

Kevin,
I would strongly suggest you refer to my earlier post (While I have been an official for years now, I have been a coach since the 70s). This should eliminate the problem for your team when making a throw-in.

While there is no "courtesy rule" per se in basketball, I don't know any official who would intentionally put the ball at the disposition of an inbounder if a player were still lying on the floor having just saved or having attempted to save the ball or if they requested to tie an untied shoe.

At times, some officials do rush to get the ball back into play. Generally, these officials fit into one of two categories:
1. New officials who are in too big of a hurry and fail to make sure that the game is ready to be restarted
2. Veteran officials trying to get-in-and-get-out as quickly as possible.

At the same time, if there is no reason to delay (no subs, no fouls being reported, no injured players, etc.), then as officials we DO try to get the ball in play as quickly as REASONABLY possible (not to be confused with the "courtesy rule.")

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Kevin W

You could have a player that dove for a loose ball that had not gotten up quickly enough to set up to defend the inbound pass and this would be a huge advantage to the offense.

I'm not going to put the ball in play if he's still on the floor. I'll give him time to get up, but no more than second or two, because if it's longer than that, I'm beckoning the coach to tend to the injured player. If he gets up in a second or two, I'm putting the ball in play as soon as I check the table for substitutes, check time on the clock, and make eye contact with my partner.

If this is happening when substitutes are reporting, which could be a confusing time for players, you're going to get a few extra seconds anyway, because in addition to doing all of the above, I'm going to be counting players to make sure each team has five. If this is happening after a timeout, or intermission, don't use the entire 30 seconds, or 60 seconds, in the huddle, get your kids set up at the first horn, not the second horn.

For a regular throwin, no possibility of an injured player, no timeout, or intermission, no substitutes, I think that you need to teach your kids to watch the official to see where he designates a spot, get to that spot, and set up the play, as soon as possible, which shouldn't be more than a few seconds.

This is most likely a coaching problem, not an officiating problem, and this is coming from an official, who besides having 28 years of officiating experience, at all levels, from third grade, to high school varsity, was also a middle school coach for over 25 years. The only way this could be an officiating problem is if the official is not designating a spot (poor signals), or is not putting the ball in play where it is supposed to be put into play (poor mechanics). If this is really starting to bug you, then send a substitute to the table every time there is a throwin situation, it will give you a few extra seconds.

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=CMHCoachNRef;567157]
2. Veteran officials trying to get-in-and-get-out as quickly as possible.

I'm calling Bull**** on this. I have been taught to keep the game moving. I'm not of the mind set of get-in- get-out concept.

The sooner the ball is back into play; the sooner the coach can start back coaching. So, to say that Veteran officials are of this mind set really displays your officiating I.Q.

[CMHCoachNRef]

[QUOTE=truerookie;567160]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

2. Veteran officials trying to get-in-and-get-out as quickly as possible.

I'm calling Bull**** on this. I have been taught to keep the game moving. I'm not of the mind set of get-in- get-out concept.

The sooner the ball is back into play; the sooner the coach can start back coaching. So, to say that Veteran officials are of this mind set really displays your officiating I.Q.

Rook,
You can call what you like, but I can tell you that there ARE veteran officials who DO have the mind set of get-in-and-get-out quick mentality. I did NOT say that ALL veteran officials are of this mindset, BUT there are those who ARE. I know one official in particular who would proudly announce "44 minutes" or "52 minutes" as soon as I walked into the gym. He was also referring to the length of time that it took to complete the previous game. Whenever he describes a game, it always starts with the length of the game. It is veteran officials such as this who are much more likely to put the ball in play while a player is lying on the floor, before his partner is ready, etc.

Once again, please do NOT jump to the false conclusion that just because some officials are veteran officials and some veteran officials have the mind set of get-in-and-get-out quick mentality that ALL veteran officials have that mind set. Some of US clearly do NOT have that mindset.

[CMHCoachNRef]

[QUOTE=truerookie;567160]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

2. Veteran officials trying to get-in-and-get-out as quickly as possible.

I'm calling Bull**** on this. I have been taught to keep the game moving. I'm not of the mind set of get-in- get-out concept.

The sooner the ball is back into play; the sooner the coach can start back coaching. So, to say that Veteran officials are of this mind set really displays your officiating I.Q.

By the way, since you have no idea what my officiating I.Q. might be, that is quite presumptuous on your part to jump to the conclusion -- especially when you are misinterpreting a statement.