At the risk of making Bob Jenkins *sigh*...

[referee99]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The NCAA rules say that the ball is inbounded nearest where the violation occurs -- that might not be (and isn't in your examples) the same as the "ball location."

CIF rules might differ.

CIF rules state the same: "Ball is inbounded where the violation occurs."

How do we determine where the violation occurs, if not ball position?

Taking it ad absurdem (or whatever the latin is)...

Shot clock with less than 3 seconds, defensive team tips pass...
.... shot clock horn sounds while ball is in flight, as

a) A1 retrieves near division line, throws off-balance towards basket. Ball lands near FT line.

b) A1 retrieves near FT line in back court, throws off-balance towards basket. Ball lands near division line.

c A1 retrieves near end line in back court, throws off-balance towards basket. Ball lands near opponents FT line (weak player/off balance/ball slips).

In the CBOA manual there is a 'case play' where a shot misses the ring. Ball taken in on the end line. Are we taking the ball out on the end line in the above examples?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by referee99

CIF rules state the same: "Ball is inbounded where the violation occurs."

How do we determine where the violation occurs, if not ball position?

You used the term "ball position". Did you mean "Ball Location?" (note the initial caps -- meaning it's a defined term in the book).

In any event, in NCAA rules (and I'm doing this from memory) there are two causes for a shot-clock violaition:

a) Not releasing a try before the horn sounds
b) A try not striking the ring before the horn sounds.

In A, since the violation is for not releasing the ball, the inbounds spot will be near the BAll Location at the time of the horn.

In B, since the violation is not hitting the ring, the inbounds spot will be where the ball missed the ring -- in 99.99999% of the cases, that will be at the FT lane extended under the basket (you might have some case where a shot is so poor that it has no chance of entering the basket and becomes dead well before nearing the basket -- I wouldn't pick that nit in any game, I don't think).

[referee99]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You used the term "ball position". Did you mean "Ball Location?" (note the initial caps -- meaning it's a defined term in the book).

In any event, in NCAA rules (and I'm doing this from memory) there are two causes for a shot-clock violaition:

a) Not releasing a try before the horn sounds
b) A try not striking the ring before the horn sounds.

In A, since the violation is for not releasing the ball, the inbounds spot will be near the BAll Location at the time of the horn.

In B, since the violation is not hitting the ring, the inbounds spot will be where the ball missed the ring -- in 99.99999% of the cases, that will be at the FT lane extended under the basket (you might have some case where a shot is so poor that it has no chance of entering the basket and becomes dead well before nearing the basket -- I wouldn't pick that nit in any game, I don't think).

But here is where I am confused... you chapped my hide about the simplicity of the Ball Location rule 4-4-3 in this post.
A ball which is in flight retains the same location as when it was last in contact with a player or the court.

I buy in. I own this rule now. I'm feeling good.

Now shot clock issue comes into my cranial cavity. Try in flight, horn sounds, try ends (in this case) when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful OR it hits the floor. If I blow my whistle when shot is clearly unsuccessful, say it is a foot or two short, BEFORE it contacts the floor, the violation 'occurred' where the shooter released the try, correct? I mean, coming from 4-4-3, its a no-brainer that we are inbounding near where the shooter released the try. And even if it hits the floor, the throw was clearly unsuccessful for a time between passing the height of the basket and the floor.