Baseline or Endline (Survey here)

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Nevada:

I agree. Nothing bugs me more when I see or have a partner use the "foul tip" signal for a blocked. I always make it a point to ask him what sport we are officiating, .

MTD, Sr.

MTD, I respect your experience and wisdom, and my "juniority" defers to you....but I sense that the majority of the crowd recognizes the "foul-tip" baseball signal as an indication that I saw the basketball play, and let it go as a clean play. Doesn't baseball and basketball share at least one other sign (at least extremely similar)? The raised fist in baseball means a strike or an out...the arm may not be as straight as our foul call signal, but both are extremely close. Why isn't there some room for the "foul-tip" signal in basketball?

[Adam]

A foul tip signal in basketball can lead to trouble. If one official signals "foul tip" because he sees a clean block, and his partner comes in strong with a foul; you've got the equivalent of a double whistle blarge. Some officials may not care, but I'd much rather avoid explaining to a coach how I had a foul when my partner clearly signaled a clean block; and I'd rather avoid putting my partner into that position as well.

Furthermore, it's like back-pedaling; it tells coaches other officials that you're relatively new.

Honestly, in the leagues I've worked in; back pedaling and foul tip signals scream "amateur official" even louder than showing up in uniform.

[chartrusepengui]

On the other hand - perhaps one official saw a clean play and signaled the "foul tip" signal, but his partner saw contact with the body. Both are right.

However, I agree that the signal in NOT necessary - I just won't persecute anyone who does it.

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

On the other hand - perhaps one official saw a clean play and signaled the "foul tip" unapproved signal, but his partner saw contact with the body. Both are right.

However, I agree that the unapproved signal in NOT necessary - I just won't persecute anyone who does it.

Fixed it for ya

That being said, I do use it to communicate with my partner(s) ie: ball goes OOB on their line & they look to me for help. I'd show that it was deflected & point to the direction, but I'd never use it to acknowledge a blocked shot though.

If I didn't put air in it, then any contact was marginal... play on players & STFU coach/grandma

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

On the other hand - perhaps one official saw a clean play and signaled the "foul tip" signal, but his partner saw contact with the body. Both are right.

However, I agree that the signal in NOT necessary - I just won't persecute anyone who does it.

You're right, that's likely what happened. However, it's bound to lead from questions from the coach that can easily be avoided by not using the unapproved signal.

"Persecute" is a little strong, don't you think. I just don't like it, but I'm not going to harp on it unless a guy asks.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

"Persecute" is a little strong, don't you think. I just don't like it, but I'm not going to harp on it unless a guy asks.

...or I'm the one with the foul & he/she is showing a clean block & now we're taking heat. We will discuss this in the locker room!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

...or I'm the one with the foul & he/she is showing a clean block & now we're taking heat. We will discuss this in the locker room!

Agreed.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're right, that's likely what happened. However, it's bound to lead from questions from the coach that can easily be avoided by not using the unapproved signal.

"Persecute" is a little strong, don't you think. I just don't like it, but I'm not going to harp on it unless a guy asks.

What about a C giving a tip signal to the trail letting him know the ball was tipped by B and should not be ruled a backcourt violation? I'm sure this is unapproved, but it's something that longtime partners and I use once every 10 games or so.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

What about a C giving a tip signal to the trail letting him know the ball was tipped by B and should not be ruled a backcourt violation? I'm sure this is unapproved, but it's something that longtime partners and I use once every 10 games or so.

Obviously I think this is okay, too. If you are planning to go tell your partner he made the wrong call if he calls the bc violation, then isn't it better to prevent him from making the call in the first place and thus keep the game moving?

Yes sir, I think the "foul tip" is a great communication tool amongst officials but should never be used as a mechanic/signal.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're right, that's likely what happened. However, it's bound to lead from questions from the coach that can easily be avoided by not using the unapproved signal.

"Persecute" is a little strong, don't you think. I just don't like it, but I'm not going to harp on it unless a guy asks.

Yeah - just couldn't think of another word at the time

About the only time I'll use that signal is if partner is looking at me on OOB play if he is unsure if ball was tipped and is looking for help.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

"foul-tip" baseball signal as an indication that I saw the basketball play, and let it go as a clean play

Doesn't you not sounding the whistle and calling a foul also let everyone know it was a clean play?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Doesn't you not sounding the whistle and calling a foul also let everyone know it was a clean play?

That signal just looks amateurish and looks like the official is trying to justify not making a call which actually, to me, makes the no-call appear even more questionable.

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

That signal just looks amateurish and looks like the official is trying to justify not making a call which actually, to me, makes the no-call appear even more questionable.

I disagree....at least you acknowledge you saw action, but felt it a clean play...otherwise, you stand there chewing your cud, and probably look to most of the fans as if you don't have a clue if there was a foul or not....Only My Opinion, and I know it's not worth much....

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

I disagree....at least you acknowledge you saw action, but felt it a clean play...otherwise, you stand there chewing your cud, and probably look to most of the fans as if you don't have a clue if there was a foul or not....Only My Opinion, and I know it's not worth much....

Is that in Rule 11 & signal #78 on the signal chart

Seriously though, you'll change your tune when you do the foul tip while your partner has a fist up & all hell breaks loose. I promise you that!

Ever had a blarge in your games? If so, I bet you learned to hold up on the prelim huh.

Ever had a held ball while your partner has a foul in front of the fouling teams bench? If so, I bet you learned to go with the held ball huh.