Inbounds foul?

[Clark Kent]

Girls Soph game. Game is tied with 28 seconds left. A1 has the ball for a designated spot trow-in along B's end line. B is putting on a full court press. I administer the throw-in and tell A1 that she can move back as far as she needs to as well as told B1 not to cross the black end line. B1 obeys and comes right up to the end line but never crosses the line, jumping and yelling to prevent the throw-in. A1 either didn't hear me tell her she could move back (which I doubt) or didn't care to hear and is 6 inches from the end line. After 3 seconds of not being able to get a pass in and getting frusterated by the lack of space A1 using the ball pushes B1 in the stomach and displacing her and allowing her to inbound the ball to A2.

Is this an foul on A1 (obviously not a team control foul, because it was before the ball was inbounded)? I'd like to hear feedback and opinions on how to deal with this situation.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Girls Soph game. Game is tied with 28 seconds left. A1 has the ball for a designated spot trow-in along B's end line. B is putting on a full court press. I administer the throw-in and tell A1 that she can move back as far as she needs to as well as told B1 not to cross the black end line. B1 obeys and comes right up to the end line but never crosses the line, jumping and yelling to prevent the throw-in. A1 either didn't hear me tell her she could move back (which I doubt) or didn't care to hear and is 6 inches from the end line. After 3 seconds of not being able to get a pass in and getting frusterated by the lack of space A1 using the ball pushes B1 in the stomach and displacing her and allowing her to inbound the ball to A2.

Is this an foul on A1 (obviously not a team control foul, because it was before the ball was inbounded)? I'd like to hear feedback and opinions on how to deal with this situation.

Wow that is a new one...well did the throw in end when it was legally touched by B1 who was inbounds, and therefore by A1 also touching it, the ball is out of bounds off of A1, award B the ball at the spot? The option is always available for a tech if you view the act to be unsportsmanlike, but I'm not sure this would warrant a tech...I don't believe you can have a personal foul here - the definition references illegal contact with a variety of body parts, but the ball isn't mentioned...interested to hear other opinions on this one.

[just another ref]

Like most things, this has been discussed here more than once. I see it as a common foul on A1.

10-6-1: A player shall not......push.......an opponent by extending arms.

The fact that the ball is used to do the actual pushing seems insignificant to me.

[AKOFL]

You could get her with an intentional foul i guess, or you could call her for an OOB violation since the ball touched another player on the court and then her OOB. That might be the lesser of two evils. A intentional foul right here seem preety harsh, close game, possible freethrows. Not saying I wouldn't do it, just depends on how hard she pushed the girl. Sometimes they leave us with little choice. I'm sure I'll here it for this but it wouldn't be the same forum if I didn't.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Wow that is a new one...well did the throw in end when it was legally touched by B1 who was inbounds, and therefore by A1 also touching it, the ball is out of bounds off of A1, award B the ball at the spot? The option is always available for a tech if you view the act to be unsportsmanlike, but I'm not sure this would warrant a tech...I don't believe you can have a personal foul here - the definition references illegal contact with a variety of body parts, but the ball isn't mentioned...interested to hear other opinions on this one.

This is a good one................I'm with you on ruling regarding legally touched, just a quick guess.

[deecee]

OOB on A1.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Wow that is a new one...well did the throw in end when it was legally touched by B1 who was inbounds, and therefore by A1 also touching it, the ball is out of bounds off of A1, award B the ball at the spot? The option is always available for a tech if you view the act to be unsportsmanlike, but I'm not sure this would warrant a tech...I don't believe you can have a personal foul here - the definition references illegal contact with a variety of body parts, but the ball isn't mentioned...interested to hear other opinions on this one.

I don't think by Rule 4-42-4 that the throw-in has ended, so I don't know how it could be OOB on team A.....

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Like most things, this has been discussed here more than once. I see it as a common foul on A1.

10-6-1: A player shall not......push.......an opponent by extending arms.

The fact that the ball is used to do the actual pushing seems insignificant to me.

I'd have to agree that having the ball in her (or his) possession and using it to ward off the defender doesn't negate the common foul found in 10-6-1.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

OOB on A1.

A1 is legally out of bounds. Throw in has not ended.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Wow that is a new one...well did the throw in end when it was legally touched by B1 who was inbounds, and therefore by A1 also touching it, the ball is out of bounds off of A1, award B the ball at the spot? The option is always available for a tech if you view the act to be unsportsmanlike, but I'm not sure this would warrant a tech...I don't believe you can have a personal foul here - the definition references illegal contact with a variety of body parts, but the ball isn't mentioned...interested to hear other opinions on this one.

Originally Posted by AKOFL

You could get her with an intentional foul i guess, or you could call her for an OOB violation since the ball touched another player on the court and then her OOB. That might be the lesser of two evils. A intentional foul right here seem preety harsh, close game, possible freethrows. Not saying I wouldn't do it, just depends on how hard she pushed the girl. Sometimes they leave us with little choice. I'm sure I'll here it for this but it wouldn't be the same forum if I didn't.

Originally Posted by fullor30

This is a good one................I'm with you on ruling regarding legally touched, just a quick guess.

Originally Posted by deecee

OOB on A1.

You cannot call OOB on A1 here. Unless the ball has been released for a throwin, the throwin is not over so A1 has the right to hold it while out of bounds.

If B1 grabs the ball, you have a held ball; not OOB on A1. Same concept.

Call the personal foul. You could conceivably call a technical foul for unsporting conduct, but I think a personal foul is best here.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

I don't think by Rule 4-42-4 that the throw-in has ended, so I don't know how it could be OOB on team A.....

I am having a hard time determining my call on this one, but I agree the throw-in has not ended and OOB would not be correct. Would it be OOB if the thrower held the ball over the line and the defender slapped it but did not cause the thrower to drop the ball? IMO, no, you just play on and continue your count.

I am going with it is a foul or no call. And like I said, I am not sure which

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

I am having a hard time determining my call on this one, but I agree the throw-in has not ended and OOB would not be correct. Would it be OOB if the thrower held the ball over the line and the defender slapped it but did not cause the thrower to drop the ball? IMO, no, you just play on and continue your count.

I am going with it is a foul or no call. And like I said, I am not sure which

Think if the players are all inbounds during play. A1, standing at the top of the key with the ball, is similarly frustrated with B1's close defense and uses the ball to push her away.

Call the PC on this, IMO. It's an advantage not intended by the rules.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

A1 using the ball pushes B1 in the stomach and displacing her and allowing her to inbound the ball to A2.

Originally Posted by Scratch85

I am going with it is a foul or no call. And like I said, I am not sure which

Clearly there is an advantage gained, so how can you have a no-call here?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Think if the players are all inbounds during play. A1, standing at the top of the key with the ball, is similarly frustrated with B1's close defense and uses the ball to push her away.

Call the PC on this, IMO. It's an advantage not intended by the rules.

It's not a PC.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It's not a PC.

Not in the OP, but it is in my altered situation.