Foul on shot causes travel.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A player may pick up his dribble and stand still for any period of time and then "end up shooting the ball."

Just Another Ref:

Read what Snaqs wrote in his post that precedes this one. If the play is continuous, yes, the stopping of the dribble does start the act of shooting. In your example it does not.

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

If at any time after the illegal contact A1 passes the ball instead of releasing the ball for a field attempt the foul is a common foul and not a foul against a player in the act of shooting.

Reference, please.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

just another ref:

Look at it this way: What is the first thing, that a player who is dribbling the ball, have to do to shoot the ball? Stop his dribble. The stopping of the dribble is the start of the act of shooting.

Going back to my OP. While the illegal contact can occur very early in the "potential" act of shooting. Go ahead and sound your whistle when the contact occurs, but see the whole play. Why? If at any time after the illegal contact A1 passes the ball instead of releasing the ball for a field attempt the foul is a common foul and not a foul against a player in the act of shooting.

MTD, Sr.

I think I know what you're trying to say, yet wording imho is not clear.

To say the stopping of the dribble is the start of the act of shooting by it self is erroneous. Secondly, we've all encountered a player attempting a try and by the force of the foul, alters their attempt and passes. It is an officials judgement whether or not he was in the act of shooting. No rule, just common sense.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Reference, please.

Bob:

My statement refers to the play I described in my OP.

NFHS R4-S11-A2 states: "If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight."

Going back to my play: If A1 releases the ball for a field goal attempt, anytime after he was fouled, then A1's attempt started when he stopped his dribble. If A1, passes the ball to A2 at anytime after he was fouled, then A1 was not fouled during the act of shooting. The definition of continuous motion does not imply a patient whistle but does imply that the official see the whole play. The official must recognize the foul but watch the whole play.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I think I know what you're trying to say, yet wording imho is not clear.

To say the stopping of the dribble is the start of the act of shooting by it self is erroneous. Secondly, we've all encountered a player attempting a try and by the force of the foul, alters their attempt and passes. It is an officials judgement whether or not he was in the act of shooting. No rule, just common sense.

fullor30:

1) You said: "To say the stopping of the dribble is the start of the act of shooting by it self is erroneous."

I don't think you understand the defintition of continuous motion. Go back and reread my posts in this thread. Not ever stoppage of a dribble is the start of the act of shooting but when it is part of one continuous act of play by one player it can be the start of the act of shooting.


2) You said: "We've all encountered a player attempting a try and by the force of the foul, alters their attempt and passes. It is an officials judgement whether or not he was in the act of shooting."

I do not disagree with you. That is why we are paid the big () dollars to officiate.


3) You said: "No rule, just common sense."

Lock your common sense in the car when you arrive at the game site. Use the rules and logic instead.

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Bob:

My statement refers to the play I described in my OP.

NFHS R4-S11-A2 states: "If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight."

Going back to my play: If A1 releases the ball for a field goal attempt, anytime after he was fouled, then A1's attempt started when he stopped his dribble. If A1, passes the ball to A2 at anytime after he was fouled, then A1 was not fouled during the act of shooting. The definition of continuous motion does not imply a patient whistle but does imply that the official see the whole play. The official must recognize the foul but watch the whole play.

MTD, Sr.

I'm 95% certain that there's an NFHS interp to the effect that "if A1 was inthe actr of shooting at the time of the foul, then it's a shooting foul even if A1 passes after the foul."

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

fullor30:

1) You said: "To say the stopping of the dribble is the start of the act of shooting by it self is erroneous."

I don't think you understand the defintition of continuous motion. Go back and reread my posts in this thread. Not ever stoppage of a dribble is the start of the act of shooting but when it is part of one continuous act of play by one player it can be the start of the act of shooting.


2) You said: "We've all encountered a player attempting a try and by the force of the foul, alters their attempt and passes. It is an officials judgement whether or not he was in the act of shooting."

I do not disagree with you. That is why we are paid the big () dollars to officiate.


3) You said: "No rule, just common sense."

Lock your common sense in the car when you arrive at the game site. Use the rules and logic instead.

MTD, Sr.

mark, I understand continuous motion. I'm being nit picky in your writing which the stand alone sentence "The stopping of the dribble is the start of the act of shooting" is wrong. What you meant to say............oh never mind we both agree.

Yes we do get paid the big bucks!

I equate common sense with logic........again semantics.

I feel for you with that Buckeye loss, I was pullin' for them.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm 95% certain that there's an NFHS interp to the effect that "if A1 was inthe actr of shooting at the time of the foul, then it's a shooting foul even if A1 passes after the foul."

Bob:

To be honest, I do not ever remember just an interpretation. In general, a live ball becames dead when a foul occurs. Continuous motion provides an exception that prevents the defense from gaining advantage by committing a foul. One still has to see the entire play.

MTD, Sr.