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-   -   Foul on shot causes travel. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50755-foul-shot-causes-travel.html)

Robert E. Harrison Wed Jan 07, 2009 09:43am

Foul on shot causes travel.
 
As a player is going up for a try he is bumped. The bump causes the pivot foot that had been lifted on the try to return to the floor before the ball is released. The ball is released shortly after the pivot foot returns to the floor and the ball goes through the basket.
Do you count the basket or award two shots and disallow the basket.
I have also seen the bump cause the shooter to drag his pivot foot before releasing the ball on the try.
Thanks for the help.

Adam Wed Jan 07, 2009 09:46am

I doubt if I'll see this travel if I'm watching the contact/foul.

Indianaref Wed Jan 07, 2009 09:51am

Why would you disallow the basket? He was in the act of shooting.

OHBBREF Wed Jan 07, 2009 09:53am

once the shooting motion starts, (ART. 3 . . . The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball. ) if the foul occurs after that point it is a shooting foul, if it occurs prior to that point, it is not a shooting foul

Fairly black and white the pivot foot has nothing to do with a try, unless you rule a travel before hand.

Adam Wed Jan 07, 2009 09:54am

I will add if it's an airborne shooter who gets fouled, once he returns to the floor with the ball, it's gonna be two shots.

Adam Wed Jan 07, 2009 09:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 565576)
once the shooting motion starts, (ART. 3 . . . The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball. ) if the foul occurs after that point it is a shooting foul, if it occurs prior to that point, it is not a shooting foul

Fairly black and white the pivot foot has nothing to do with a try, unless you rule a travel before hand.

Of course it's a shooting foul. That wasn't the question.

Raymond Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 565569)
I doubt if I'll see this travel if I'm watching the contact/foul.

I just had this the other night. A1 gathers for his shot, gets bumped, then drags his pivot foot before releasing the ball.

Also what about a fast break where the player gathers for the shot, takes a hard smack, then takes an extra step before releasing the shot?

Indianaref Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 565581)
I just had this the other night. A1 gathers for his shot, gets bumped, then drags his pivot foot before releasing the ball.

Also what about a fast break where the player gathers for the shot, takes a hard smack, then takes an extra step before releasing the shot?

SECTION 11 CONTINUOUS MOTION
ART. 1 . . . Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.
ART. 2 . . . If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

ART. 3 . . . Continuous motion does not apply if a teammate fouls after a player has started a try for a goal and before the ball is in flight. The ball becomes dead immediately.

Adam Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 565581)
I just had this the other night. A1 gathers for his shot, gets bumped, then drags his pivot foot before releasing the ball.

Also what about a fast break where the player gathers for the shot, takes a hard smack, then takes an extra step before releasing the shot?

I'll probably count those, just because I'm not watching the feet so closely when I've already called contact.

Have you ever seen a high level official wave a shot off for this reason? I haven't, and I doubt I'd want to be the first.

GoodwillRef Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 565584)
I'll probably count those, just because I'm not watching the feet so closely when I've already called contact.

Have you ever seen a high level official wave a shot off for this reason? I haven't, and I doubt I'd want to be the first.

I am guessing on this one you will need some help from your partners on the travel.

Rich Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 565588)
I am guessing on this one you will need some help from your partners on the travel.

Which you won't get, because I would be scoring the basket (in my mind) right with the calling official.

Raymond Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 565583)
SECTION 11 CONTINUOUS MOTION
ART. 1 . . . Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.
ART. 2 . . . If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

ART. 3 . . . Continuous motion does not apply if a teammate fouls after a player has started a try for a goal and before the ball is in flight. The ball becomes dead immediately.

I'm missing your point Indy. I know I lead my association in ruling 'continous motion' on fouls. The "on the floor" call is a pet-peeve of mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 565584)
I'll probably count those, just because I'm not watching the feet so closely when I've already called contact.

Have you ever seen a high level official wave a shot off for this reason? I haven't, and I doubt I'd want to be the first.

Even if the player obviously travels before releasing the shot? The play I had the other night A1 obviously dragged his pivot foot for all to see. I have no problem telling either coach that the foul caused the travel but I'm still giving him 2 shots.

BktBallRef Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 565574)
Why would you disallow the basket? He was in the act of shooting.

The act of shooting ends when an airborne shooter returns to the floor.

Two FTs, no basket.

fullor30 Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 565617)
What are you talking about, where did I said I would call a violation? I said I would disallow the basket and award 2 shots.

Wow you're quick, I was editing and put in some have said but NOT you! Then just deleted it.

Ha! Talk about a New York second!!

Raymond Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 565619)
Wow you're quick, I was editing and put in some have said but NOT you! Then just deleted it.

Ha! Talk about a New York second!!

I'll delete the evidence. :D


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