Mind your own business?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But do not get into the huddle and have an argument with the coach during his TO.

I thought this was a given.

BTW, if I'm lead on this, I'll grant the TO even if I can't quite hear it. No excuse not to.

I don't follow this. How would you know to grant it if you didn't hear it?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't follow this. How would you know to grant it if you didn't hear it?

The point is that one of them should have heard it. The L really doesn't have anything going on yet, so could easily have helped this situation by having some awareness of what's going on and getting the TO for the coach.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The point is that one of them should have heard it. The L really doesn't have anything going on yet, so could easily have helped this situation by having some awareness of what's going on and getting the TO for the coach.

Regarding awareness, my thought also. Be prepared after a mini run or defensive miscue etc. that someone will be calling time out. After a made basket in above situations I always glance over to coach that is most likely to call one. Typically it will be called after a made basket, free throw or in transition.

That said, two man can be tough. I'd hate to call a T for the crew's 'failin' to communicate' .

[mj]

So if the T is opposite the benches near the division line, how can he not have a clear view of both benches?

You have to be aware of things...I say no T. Keep the game moving and grant the timeout.

[Ignats75]

^^^^What MJ said but even more....Even if the T is Tableside, if the L is doing his job, he is looking at the Table (and therefore the HC should be in his Line of Sight) and should be looking for a last second sub and making sure they are ready to go (as a crew). In pregame, one of the standard points is to make eye contact before inbounding the ball. This isn't done so I can wink at my partner. This is done to make sure we are both ready and everything is under control. Apparently, the crew in the OP didn't address this in the pregame, or someone was asleep at the switch.

[Ignats75]

Trail tossed the ball to the lead, then proceeded to step into the huddle and engage in a spirited discussion with the coach, gesturing emphatically to the coaches box.

I just re-read the OP and this time this line jumped out at me. I believe it is highly unprofessional to step into the huddle, and pick a fight with a coach. We've talked alot about baiting coaches over the years. If this description doesn't fit that to a t (no pun intend....wait yes it was) I don't know what does. You want to say something to a coach, stand near the huddle (but outside it) and have a quick word after they break. In this description the some people want to:

1. Miss the reasonably requested timeout in a close game
2. Whack the coach because the referees had poor game awareness and management skills
3. Not whacking him, but being visibly annoyed and then eating up his time out by picking a fight.

You know, one of my pet peeves about civilians is when they say referees want the game to be about them and not the game. I could understand why a fan would feel that way about the Trail

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I thought this was a given.

I would have thought so, too. The official in the OP, apparently, did not.

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't follow this. How would you know to grant it if you didn't hear it?

Situational awareness. I know we're supposed to hear and see, but in this case if the coach is clearly making his way, ever so slowly, onto the court with his hands in the T sign and mouthing the words "Time Out," I'll consider this close a case where seeing is enough.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat the IW and we'll move on. The ball's already dead.

[just another ref]

Did I do that poor a job of describing things? The point of this thread was not even about the failure to grant the time out. I was asking if anyone would call the T from the lead after the trail had granted the time out and was obviously not going to call one.

This all happened with about 3 minutes to go in a close game. Visitors set to inbound. Ball had not become live. Another thing which may or may not be significant. The coach made no TO signal whatsoever, in great contrast to many who jump up and down and wave frantically to attract the officials attention. This guy simply walked in a straight line toward the trail, yelling his request over and over.

I think some of the kids now actually do not even realize that they, too, can make the timeout request. Earlier that same day in a girls game, I'm trail. Point guard stops near the division line. Defense is packed in a zone. I saw the girl look toward the bench. I heard the coach say "Point," a couple of times. I turned to look and the coach was signaling the timeout. I realized afterward the coach was trying to get her player to point at her, so I would look and see the signal. Wouldn't it be easier to have the players be aware that they should also make the signal?

Back to the OP. I think most of us have agreed after numerous discussions that almost nothing is an automatic T. But if a coach is standing that close to the center of the court as the ball is about to be put in play, unless he is trying to tell me the building is on fire or something equally important, he probably has one coming.

[Adam]

This different than I pictured it. As Trail, I'd probably call the T on this. As Lead, I wouldn't call the T after the Trail had already granted the TO.

[Ignats75]

OK, let me understand this.

Crew has little or no game awareness as well as absolutely no hearing. Therefore coach cannot get a reasonably requested timeout, so you want to whack him? Exactly how many more games do you want to do for that assignor?

I'm not known as Mr T for nothing and even I wouldn't even begin to think about a T in that situation. No way am I whacking anyone in that situation. The most I would do is say, "Sorry coach, I'm married with six kids. I can't hear squat."

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Therefore coach cannot get a reasonably requested timeout, so you want to whack him?

A request by the coach is no longer reasonable when it comes from the center
of the court.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A request by the coach is no longer reasonable when it comes from the center
of the court.

just another ref:

Ignats is correct on this. While no wants to see a HC out on the court in this fashion, the officals screwed the pooch, as our umpiring brethern would say, in this situation. If a coach is continually requesting a TO during a ThI and neither officials ignore his legitimate requests for a TO, then they have to suck the TF back into their whistles and man-up to their poor game and court awareness.

MTD, Sr.

[fiasco]

I would call a T for no other reason than to avoid being seen as a coward by "veteran" officials.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I would call a T for no other reason than to avoid being seen as a coward by "veteran" officials.

ROFLMAO!! By the way, do you officiating skills reflect your username?

MTD, Sr.

[Ray_from_Mi]

All games from now on, keep in mind, time-score-situation Sometimes we do some 'closet-coaching' while on the floor, i.e. a team is on a 'run' and the opposing coach needs to call a TO to 'put out the fire'. We start checking (visual only) with the coach to see if he's looking to call a TO. If I was the coach in your example. I would be really upset if I was to receive a T because you are not aware of my verbal request for a TO w/ 3min. to go and possibly a close score. It was evident the coach was willing to go to great lengths to get someone's attention.