Angry Coach at Halftime

[Adam]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

Why report him. He is on my short leash forever and knows it.

Two for two.

I'm reporting it because his behavior has no place in high school sports. If the AD wants to do nothing with the report, not my problem. If the state wants to do nothing with the report, not my problem. I'd report that just as I'd report him pounding on the dressing room door after a game.

I'll agree to putting him on a short leash during the game. However, after the game, it's over. Next game will be a clean slate.

[deecee]

This sounds like a certain school in southern california maybe?

As much as you might want to T here you can't and shouldn't. Unless a coach directly assaults you (verbally or physically) during half time you can't go after him here. But you DON'T have to take an iota of crap once the game starts from him or his players.

I also don't hold coaches or players guilty from one game to another. I might know a coach is an a-hole and I might not grant him as much patience in the future, but the leash isnt really that much shorter than usual, I would just ask him to put a stop to his whining sooner than I might. This takes years of pattern building and a-hole'dness to reach this level.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

This sounds like a certain school in southern california maybe?

As much as you might want to T here you can't and shouldn't. Unless a coach directly assaults you (verbally or physically) during half time you can't go after him here.

Got a rule quote for this?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Got a rule quote for this?

Yes -- the coach isnt directly addressing the officials and its in the locker room! I am all for T's when they are necessary, and I think they are way more necessary than they are used and not enough are called. But this situation is a reach.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Yes -- the coach isnt directly addressing the officials and its in the locker room! I am all for T's when they are necessary, and I think they are way more necessary than they are used and not enough are called. But this situation is a reach.

That's not a rule.
First off, you know he doesn't have to directly address you in order to get a T.

Secondly, the case play has already been provided showing the rules apply to the locker room as well. Show me the rule that says you can't call this T.

Originally Posted by deecee

Yes -- the coach isnt directly addressing the officials and its in the locker room!

On defense in the 1st half, coach of Team B says to his players "move your feet, these refs are calling ticky-tack fouls on our end".
This type of commentary continues a few more trips down the court.

We let this slide because coach is not directly addressing us??
Or are you saying ignore comments not made directly to us during intermissions??

[deecee]

Snaq -- are you referring to the situation with the electronics (because that doesnt apply) or 10.4.1 SITUATION B: where its in a public hall and not in THEIR locker room where they have an expectation of privacy. Neither of these cover a T in this situation.


So SNAQ where does it say YOU SHOULD????

Originally Posted by Ch1town

On defense in the 1st half, coach of Team B says to his players "move your feet, these refs are calling ticky-tack fouls on our end".
This type of commentary continues a few more trips down the court.

We let this slide because coach is not directly addressing us??
Or are you saying ignore comments not made directly to us during intermissions??

All I will say to the coach if he says this a couple times is move on from that point. Besides this is good coaching -- he recognizes how we are calling the game (he might not like it) but hes telling his kids to PLAY BETTER DEFENSE. Why would I get upset at this comment. Coaches who cry "Three Seconds" "Thats a travel" blah blah blah, does not bother me. They are just crying for calls. I would not waste my breath on a coach if I hear him say this in a huddle.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Snaq -- are you referring to the situation with the electronics (because that doesnt apply) or 10.4.1 SITUATION B: where its in a public hall and not in THEIR locker room where they have an expectation of privacy. Neither of these cover a T in this situation.

So SNAQ where does it say YOU SHOULD????

The first one shows we have jurisdiction in the locker room. The 2nd is irrelevant, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not arguing that you should. I'm arguing that you can.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

Yes -- the coach isnt directly addressing the officials...

If I had a nickel for every time that I heard a coach make that case after getting whacked...

Originally Posted by Ch1town

On defense in the 1st half, coach of Team B says to his players "move your feet, these refs are calling ticky-tack fouls on our end".
This type of commentary continues a few more trips down the court.

We let this slide because coach is not directly addressing us??
Or are you saying ignore comments not made directly to us during intermissions??

During the game the coach stands up and yells, "Keep working hard guys, I know that it's 8 on 5 out there." He isn't directly addressing the officials. His comments are to his players, right?

Get real.

Originally Posted by deecee

As for the second quote the coach said "these guys are calling ticky tack fouls" he never questioned my integrity he just stated his opinion on how we were calling the game and told his team to adjust.

Oh really?

Says to his players "move your feet, these refs are calling ticky-tack fouls on our end".

That could be interpreted as saying we weren't calling ticky-tacks on the other end. But interpretations are in the ears of the interpreter, I guess.

I was just killing the notion that we can't penalize commentary that isn't directed towards us even though it's about us. That was your defense on this stance, correct?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

Yes -- the coach isnt directly addressing the officials and its in the locker room! I am all for T's when they are necessary, and I think they are way more necessary than they are used and not enough are called. But this situation is a reach.

UNSPORTING BEHAVIOR
*2.8.1 COMMENT: Unsporting tactics, in general, involve relationships
between opponents, between the players and officials, between the spectators
and officials, between the players and spectators, between the coaches and
spectators, and between coaches and officials. In some situations, it can also
apply to the relationship of a player to teammates, and to the coach and members
of the team. For example, profanity on the part of a participant, coach or
member of the team is considered to be an unsporting act, whether or not the
profanity is directed at any individual or is merely a means of “letting off steam.”
(10-1-8; 10-3-6; 10-4-1)

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

=I believe this sort of "stuff" happened at the University of Minnesota many moons ago. Can't remember the coach but it was a pretty gruesome story.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The Ohio State incident from 1971? Bill Musselman was the coach and Dave Winfield was a player for the Gophers.

let's not forget the infamous John Cheny Temple/St Joseph game where he sent in a goon to foul, which ended up with a player breaking an and not being able to play in the post season.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

This thread is degenerating in a thread where we are trying to compare apples to oranges.

Let us get back to the original situation (apples), a boys' H.S. varsity game played under NFHS Rules: The Home Team's lockerroom is adjacent to the game officials' dressing room; and due to poor "architectural design," the wall between the dressing room and the Home Team's lockerroom is not soundproof. During halftime the Home HC rants to his team about the officiating and naturally the officials can hear his tirade.

The are two basic groups in this thread:

(1) Officials that want to charge the HC with a TF and some of these officials would even say the TF should be a flagrant TF. The officials in this group have quoted a number of NFHS Rules that give the game officials to "take care of business" in this situation.

(2) Officials that will "ignore" the HC's conduct in his team's lockerroom.


This thread has now extended to conduct courtside (oranges). Ladies and germs (gentlemen) courtside conduct is not the same as conduct inside the sanctary of the lockerroom.

As everybody knows, I am in Group (2) along with Rut and Daryl among other officials. Group (2) officials understand that the seriousness of the Head Coach's conduct in the lockerroom. BUT, with very few rare exceptions (see my OP per the NCAA's position of HC's conduct in timeout huddles; this is one of these rare exception) game officials are persona non grata in a team's timeout huddle.

If one wants to punish the HC for his halftime lockerroom tirade there are ways without baiting him or minipulating the rules of the game.

I want to repeat my advice to the Group (1) officials and that is DO NOT go there. No matter how many rules are quoted there really is not rule support for charging the HC with a TF for his conduct in the lockerroom. Furthermore, I would advise the game officials to do what Daryl and I do when we encounter this type of situation, and belive me Daryl and I have been in this postion many times, laugh about it. I think it is funny that the coach would waste valuable time with his players to go bonkers about the offidciating.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Mark, I appreciate your opinion and value your thoughts on all things basketball (except as it relates to the dreaded Buckeyes). However, only one side here has provided any rules support. Group 2 has not provided a single rule that relieves officials of jurisdiction in the locker room during half time. Not a single rule or case play or official interpretation has been provided.

Where is this sanctuary rule?

I'm not saying the call is the wisest in all circumstances, but in a case where the coach is entering into a profanity laced tirade accusing the officials of all sorts of cheating.... Well, let's just say the rules support jurisdiction here even if it should be used prudently.

I still don't know if I'd call this T, by the way.

I see a few options.
1. Call the T immediately.
1a. Make it a flagrant.
2. Wait til coach comes out from half time and call it then.
2a. Make it a flagrant.
3. Wait til the half starts, call the T and inform him it's for what he said at halftime.
3a. Make it a flagrant.
4. Put coach on a short leash.

I can see the reasoning for all three. What I can't see, obviously, is the logic behind some sort of sanctuary status for the locker room during half time.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Mark, I appreciate your opinion and value your thoughts on all things basketball (except as it relates to the dreaded Buckeyes). However, only one side here has provided any rules support. Group 2 has not provided a single rule that relieves officials of jurisdiction in the locker room during half time. Not a single rule or case play or official interpretation has been provided.

Where is this sanctuary rule?

I'm not saying the call is the wisest in all circumstances, but in a case where the coach is entering into a profanity laced tirade accusing the officials of all sorts of cheating.... Well, let's just say the rules support jurisdiction here even if it should be used prudently.

I still don't know if I'd call this T, by the way.

I see a few options.
1. Call the T immediately.
1a. Make it a flagrant.
2. Wait til coach comes out from half time and call it then.
2a. Make it a flagrant.
3. Wait til the half starts, call the T and inform him it's for what he said at halftime.
3a. Make it a flagrant.
4. Put coach on a short leash.

I can see the reasoning for all three. What I can't see, obviously, is the logic behind some sort of sanctuary status for the locker room during half time.

Snaqs:

Daryl explained it very simply: We are not in the lockerroom because we are not supposed to be in that lockerroom. We do not know who said what in the lockerroom. As I also said that with very rare exceptions we are not to stick our noses in a team's huddle either. As I have stated before, I am known as a real hard-a$$ when it comes to decourum, but I am mystified as to why there are officials who want to go down this path. We, as officials, have enough problems with on-the-court issues to be worrying about boogers in the lockerroom at halftime.

MTD, Sr.