talking coaches

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Some might view this as unnecessarily confrontational. I would agree.
Just a quick word, quietly even, will usually work. You're wording is perfect, although I might drop the "that's enough" the first time.

"That's enough!" is actually what I would say the first time and it would be the only words needed.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

"That's enough!" is actually what I would say the first time and it would be the only words needed.

I could go with that, and I've used it, but I wouldn't stop the game and make a show out of embarrassing the coach.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I could go with that, and I've used it, but I wouldn't stop the game and make a show out of embarrassing the coach.

Agreed.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I could go with that, and I've used it, but I wouldn't stop the game and make a show out of embarrassing the coach.

It's not that I want to embarass the coach, but you almost really do have to stop the game when the coach is exhibiting the behavior you want stopped. Otherwise you might get a situation where 3 or 4 minutes run off the clock before the next stoppage in play, and by then you'd look like a fool trying to bring up something that happened a while ago. Kind of like when a coach in the 2nd half brings up a call you made back at the start of the game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

It's not that I want to embarass the coach, but you almost really do have to stop the game when the coach is exhibiting the behavior you want stopped. Otherwise you might get a situation where 3 or 4 minutes run off the clock before the next stoppage in play, and by then you'd look like a fool trying to bring up something that happened a while ago. Kind of like when a coach in the 2nd half brings up a call you made back at the start of the game.

If three or four minutes go by and he hasn't continued, then you might not need to address it.

However, if you need to stop the game, you can do it without showing up the coach. Use an IW right in front of his bench, that gives you a quick moment to have a quiet word with him.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

It's not that I want to embarass the coach, but you almost really do have to stop the game when the coach is exhibiting the behavior you want stopped. Otherwise you might get a situation where 3 or 4 minutes run off the clock before the next stoppage in play, and by then you'd look like a fool trying to bring up something that happened a while ago. Kind of like when a coach in the 2nd half brings up a call you made back at the start of the game.

You or one of your partners should be close enough to the coach during a live ball to say, "That's enough!" or "We've heard enough tonight, coach" or "We aren't going to have you officiating from your bench all night, coach" during a live ball.

I don't advocate having extended conversations during live ball action with a coach, but I've learned in a short period of time that a brief comment is helpful, timely, and also doesn't interrupt the game...

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

You or one of your partners should be close enough to the coach during a live ball to say, "That's enough!" or "We've heard enough tonight, coach" or "We aren't going to have you officiating from your bench all night, coach" during a live ball.

I don't advocate having extended conversations during live ball action with a coach, but I've learned in a short period of time that a brief comment is helpful, timely, and also doesn't interrupt the game...

To each their own I guess. I was taught that it's better to do it this way, again, not to embarass the coach or anything, but to make your point and leave no doubt that if the coach chooses to continue with this behavior, then it should be no surprise when he gets T'd. Assignors have told us that since most high school games are videotaped, it's also good backup for when the coach or AD complains to them...it catches things that an inaudible comment as you're running down the court don't show.

Coach: "blahblahblah - he T'd me up for no reason at all! I don't want to see him in my gym anymore!"
Assignor: "Really coach? Because on the video I requested from your AD, I see him giving you a warning late in the first quarter. And I really don't see anything he did that was unjustified. Coach? Hello coach...are you still there?"
*click*

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

To each their own I guess. I was taught that it's better to do it this way, again, not to embarass the coach or anything, but to make your point and leave no doubt that if the coach chooses to continue with this behavior, then it should be no surprise when he gets T'd. Assignors have told us that since most high school games are videotaped, it's also good backup for when the coach or AD complains to them...it catches things that an inaudible comment as you're running down the court don't show.

Coach: "blahblahblah - he T'd me up for no reason at all! I don't want to see him in my gym anymore!"
Assignor: "Really coach? Because on the video I requested from your AD, I see him giving you a warning late in the first quarter. And I really don't see anything he did that was unjustified. Coach? Hello coach...are you still there?"
*click*

I guess around here, the assigners trust our judgment on this and will back us up. We don't have to embarrass a coach (intentionally or not) so there's a video taped backup of our warning.

Assigner: "Coach says he got T'd up for no reason."
Me: "Interesting, he accused me of cheating. I call that a reason."
Assigner: "works for me."

Every T around here comes with a report anyway.

Originally Posted by ma_ref

Assignors have told us that since most high school games are videotaped, it's also good backup for when the coach or AD complains to them...it catches things that an inaudible comment as you're running down the court don't show.*

Tape doesn't lie... not that I would embarass the coach. I wouldn't stop play to warn coach either, but validation on tape is not a bad thing.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

Assignors have told us that since most high school games are videotaped, it's also good backup for when the coach or AD complains to them...it catches things that an inaudible comment as you're running down the court don't show.

I guess I don't have this worry. My assignors trust that I'm telling them the truth and have complete faith that I'm only whacking a coach when necessary. They also don't get very bent out of shape on technicals period...they're just another call, no reason to get all fired up.

That said, I definitely agree that having video-taped evidence is nice - but there are many times a coach can say something quite quietly, that maybe only I can hear, that's still going to earn him a T. That's never going to show up on film, so I'm not making a case in any instance of stopping a game to warn a coach...

Edited to add - if something is going on that can only be "warned for" by stopping the game, it's enough that I'm stopping the game for a T w/o a warning...

Originally Posted by jdw3018

That said, I definitely agree that having video-taped evidence is nice - but there are many times a coach can say something quite quietly, that maybe only I can hear, that's still going to earn him a T. That's never going to show up on film, so I'm not making a case in any instance of stopping a game to warn a coach...

Edited to add - if something is going on that can only be "warned for" by stopping the game, it's enough that I'm stopping the game for a T w/o a warning...

Good stuff! I guess above all, it boils down to earning the trust of our bosses. Tape won't pick up a quick "f you" as you run by the coach, but we still want/need the boss to back us.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I could go with that, and I've used it, but I wouldn't stop the game and make a show out of embarrassing the coach.

What Snaqwells and JRutledge are saying gets to the heart of this. Communicate with coaches and players as if you were the coach or player, until they lose that privelege. Tactfully let them know they lost it, and then focus on the floor unless they make the choice to make you T them.

Above all, be nice. Messy games result in more missed calls, more 50/50 decisions we have to make on the spot, and more judgment by coaches and players on our performance. We have to understand that. When I help out and observe, I rarely see a coach get upset during well-played clean games. I rarely see them ranting unless there have been some missed calls or a few consecutive close ones that went against him. That's OK. No official ro crew is perfect. We're human. But how we react is the difference. We control our responses.

Empathy is your best friend in dealing with coaches. You can always clamp down later if he doesn't respond to being nice, but once you offend/embarass him, or pee in his pocket and tell him it is raining, there's little chance of recovering.

Every T I give, I am angry about it, because the player or coach made me do it. Their reaction when I tell them that is always interesting. Prevents a grudge on their part every time.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

"That's enough!" is actually what I would say the first time and it would be the only words needed.

Indeed, that's why I say it. It pretty much leaves no other possible meaning or interpretation. It's telling the coach, "This is my line in the sand...cross it and you know what's coming."

[OHBBREF]

I understand the thought here but the terminology drives me nuts!

The idea is to defuse the situation before it gets out of control, and without forcing the coach or yourself into a corner with one of those infamous phrases " one more, or if it happens again ..."

Suggestions; approach the coach personally and not yelling at them from across the floor, quietly ask for his cooperation in complying with the rules first,
"Coach, help me out here, by rule you can not keep yelling about calls and trying to influence calls from the bench, if you persist we are going to have to deal with it, and that is going to result in a technical, and neither one of us wants that happen."

If he leaves you no choice then back up give a Stop sign (about hand check signal high) "Okay coach that is enough, consider this your warning" . Still in low tone.

Then let your partners know and move on, and deal with it if the coach persists with that behavior.

Issueing a warning, or talking to the coach and telling them that you have had enough of their behavior is great and would stop a normal person from continuing with their abhorent actions.
But sometimes it continues, and just like a little kid if you do not deal with if firmly and fairly, then it will persist in being a problem.

But I am really NOT worried about Embarrassing a Coach - S/He is thuroghly capable of doing that with out my help. What I am worried about is the coach causing problems for my game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

But I am really NOT worried about Embarrassing a Coach - S/He is thuroghly capable of doing that with out my help. What I am worried about is the coach causing problems for my game.

When I talk about embarrassing the coach, I'm talking about throwing gas on the fire.
The stop sign may work some times, but others it's going to explode in your face.